New Member – Looking to Upgrade from SX2P

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New Member – Looking to Upgrade from SX2P

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Viewing 21 posts - 1 through 21 (of 21 total)
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  • #519847
    Andrew W
    Participant
      @andreww

      Hello all,

      I keep ending up back at the forum as part of my lengthy googling sessions, so I figured it was about time that I actually introduced myself and asked for some help from the collective wisdom of the membership.

      My situation is this. I bought an SX2P from ARC almost exactly a year ago. I have really enjoyed learning with it, but I think the time has come for a step up in both capacity and grunt. I don't need anything too massive as I don't really have the space (nor in reality, the budget) so I'm probably still sticking to the realms of the benchtop models. For reference, my lathe is a 4 1/2" Boxford Model A and that has never been found wanting for capacity. I've mainly been producing a variety of model components and a few vehicle parts as required.

      I would prefer to stay with the R8 spindle and I like the flexibility and ease afforded by variable speed control rather than playing around with belts and pulleys – the Boxford affords me that pleasure in spades until I eventually succumb to the temptation of a VFD. It also means that I'm well versed in the pros/cons of Chinese-sourced machines vs old English iron.

      My online research keeps coming back to Warco's WM16B / WM18B or ARC's SX2.7 / SX3. I have had good experiences with both companies in the past.

      With the Warcos, the 18 is the only one with the R8 and is a significantly heftier machine, probably at the limit of what I can accommodate.

      With the Siegs, although the SX3 is a more substantial machine, I really like the idea of the tapered gibs and the slightly more "modern" approach of the smaller SX2.7.

      I feel like I am heading towards the SX2.7, however my hesitation is that I may find myself in a similar situation in 12 months time, looking to trade up to the bigger machines. If this is the case perhaps the WM18B might be the better option – although I might have to hire an engine crane to move it!

      Any pointers or advice you are able to give would be most appreciated. Have I perhaps overlooked an option that might tick all the boxes?

      Thanks!

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      #40999
      Andrew W
      Participant
        @andreww
        #519929
        Brian H
        Participant
          @brianh50089

          Hello Andrew and welcome.

          I'm afraid that I won't be of much use in your deliberating process but I too have a Boxford, in my case an AUD. I also have an ancient mill/drill with DRO and a Senior ELT horizontal mill with DRO.

          I had a look at the spec for the 2 machines you mention and, personally, I thought that the SX3 was the better machine because of the lack of a swivelling head, they are a bit of a nightmare to tram whereas the SX3 is fixed and so no problem or danger of it moving.

          Please let us know what you decide and why.

          Brian

          #519930
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            In the case of the Sieg machines then if you can afford it go for the SX3. I've had a couple of members ask me the same in recent months and that is what I have suggested to them as it is a more marked step up in the the grunt and capacity stakes.

            I've had a X3 which has a lot of the same parts since 2007 and not found the traditional gibs on X & Y to be an issue, maybe give then a tweak every couple of years and forget. The Z axis has a tapered gib anyway. What makes more difference is the fact the dovetails are further apart and longer than on the SX2.7 so the table is better supported. The column has a larger base and is a far more substantial casting both of which make it a lot more rigid than the 2.7. I also prefer the front handle to raise the head.

            SX3 also has quite a bit more room between spindle and table , I have found the 2.7 wanting in that respect at times plus the table area is a lot greater as it is wider than the quite narrow one on the 2.7.

            #519940
            Andrew W
            Participant
              @andreww

              Thanks both, that's really insightful.

              From the ARC website, I believe the SX3 has a tilting head, the same as the WM18B, its Warco "equivalent". The latter appears to have a bigger table and more travel though, as well as a more powerful motor.

              Much to choose between them or is it a case of too close to call and down to preferred colour?

              #519955
              not done it yet
              Participant
                @notdoneityet

                Do check those motor powers. Arc definitely quote power produced by the motor, but I think a lot of other suppliers only provide the power required by the motor – a lot of which may be lost as heat, so the output power is much lower – possibly (or even probably?) lower than the Arc machine(s).

                #519958
                JasonB
                Moderator
                  @jasonb

                  Yes, head tilts on the SX3.

                  As NDIY hints do check to see if the figures are input power or output, ARC are output. but as well as power you need to consider torque, the Brushless motor on the SX3 has more torque and can run as a direct belt drive from motor to spindle so is quiet and you don't have to change speed ranges. The brushed motor on the Warco does not have so much torque at low revs so there is a gearbox in the head that gives high and low range.

                  #519960
                  Andrew W
                  Participant
                    @andreww

                    Excellent points regarding power quotes, thank you.

                    Jason, my understanding was that the WM18B was the brushless/belt variant of the WM18, therefore a bit more of a side-by-side comparison with the SX3 was feasible. I may have got myself a bit confused somewhere along the line though!

                    #519983
                    Clive Brown 1
                    Participant
                      @clivebrown1

                      The WM18B motor is brushless. I have a WM16B, also brushless and I've never noticed any shortage of torque.

                      The WM18B wasn't on the market when I bought. Apart from being more substantial than the WM16B it has 90 deg. head tilt and a locating pin for the vertical position. Quite handy. I'm reluctant to tilt the head on my WM16B because re-tramming is tedious.

                      Otherwise I'm pleased, the 3MT suited me as I already had some tooling, it isn't too bad since it is self ejecting, so no need for a hammer.

                      I only rarely swap tooling with my Boxford however.

                      #519984
                      Harry Wilkes
                      Participant
                        @harrywilkes58467

                        Welcome to forum

                        H

                        #520018
                        Andrew W
                        Participant
                          @andreww
                          Posted by Clive Brown 1 on 15/01/2021 15:06:15:

                          The WM18B motor is brushless. I have a WM16B, also brushless and I've never noticed any shortage of torque.

                          The WM18B wasn't on the market when I bought. Apart from being more substantial than the WM16B it has 90 deg. head tilt and a locating pin for the vertical position. Quite handy. I'm reluctant to tilt the head on my WM16B because re-tramming is tedious.

                          Otherwise I'm pleased, the 3MT suited me as I already had some tooling, it isn't too bad since it is self ejecting, so no need for a hammer.

                          I only rarely swap tooling with my Boxford however.

                          Again, many thanks.

                          The WM18B in R8 certainly looks to be a contender. Will need to get the tape measure out to confirm that I have the space!

                          #520021
                          Ady1
                          Participant
                            @ady1

                            substantial than the WM16B it has 90 deg. head tilt and a locating pin for the vertical position. Quite handy. I'm reluctant to tilt the head on my WM16B because re-tramming is tedious.

                            My family braincell immediately said "Useful Modding Opportunity!"

                            #520024
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb

                              Sorry missed that you were looking at the "B" and not just the WM18. But you will have to swap between two pulley ratios unlike the SX3 that just has one belt position.

                              #520025
                              Andrew W
                              Participant
                                @andreww
                                Posted by JasonB on 15/01/2021 17:21:45:

                                Sorry missed that you were looking at the "B" and not just the WM18. But you will have to swap between two pulley ratios unlike the SX3 that just has one belt position.

                                Again, an excellent point, thank you.

                                It also has the Z axis handwheel up high rather than the SX3's at the base.

                                Decisions, decisions…

                                #520028
                                Andrew W
                                Participant
                                  @andreww

                                  Have just looked at a video of the WM18B and belt change appears to be a bit of a faff involving loosening the motor mount with a socket spanner and re-tensioning once the belt is in the new position. Suppose I probably wouldn’t need to be doing it that often but it’s not the most elegant of arrangements. Makes the boxford’s lever arrangement look quite simple by comparison!

                                  It’s the price to be paid for the speed range available I guess.

                                  #520029
                                  Bill Phinn
                                  Participant
                                    @billphinn90025
                                    Posted by Andrew Wakeling on 15/01/2021 17:01:54:

                                    Will need to get the tape measure out to confirm that I have the space!

                                    Do bear in mind that Warco have been out of stock of WM16s and WM18s for a considerable time.

                                    The situation with their lathes is even worse.

                                    #520030
                                    Tony Wright 1
                                    Participant
                                      @tonywright1

                                      Just out of interest what is an SX2P ?

                                      #520031
                                      Andrew W
                                      Participant
                                        @andreww
                                        Posted by Bill Phinn on 15/01/2021 17:43:36:

                                        Posted by Andrew Wakeling on 15/01/2021 17:01:54:

                                        Will need to get the tape measure out to confirm that I have the space!

                                        Do bear in mind that Warco have been out of stock of WM16s and WM18s for a considerable time.

                                        The situation with their lathes is even worse.

                                        The message I had from them suggested restock in March, but given the current climate I suspect we shall see how that pans out.

                                        #520033
                                        Andrew W
                                        Participant
                                          @andreww
                                          Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 15/01/2021 17:44:41:

                                          Just out of interest what is an SX2P ?

                                          It's one of these:

                                          Link

                                          It's essentially an SX2 built to ARC's specification.

                                          A very capable bit of kit for its size. I've been very happy with it.

                                          #520047
                                          Stuart Smith 5
                                          Participant
                                            @stuartsmith5

                                            Re Warco stock.

                                            I am intending to buy a new Warco lathe and have been in email contact with Warco, waiting for the lathe to be back in stock. I was told they were expected to be back in stock in November. When I asked again mid-November for an update, they had just received the delivery but they had already all been sold.

                                            When I spoke to them by phone, I realised that I should have ‘back ordered’ the lathe which I have now done. The next batch is expected late January or early February so hopefully I will be able to get one then.

                                            If you decide on the Warco and want your mill in March, I would suggest ordering now!

                                            Stuart

                                            #520072
                                            Andrew W
                                            Participant
                                              @andreww
                                              Posted by Stuart Smith 5 on 15/01/2021 19:35:37:

                                              Re Warco stock.

                                              I am intending to buy a new Warco lathe and have been in email contact with Warco, waiting for the lathe to be back in stock. I was told they were expected to be back in stock in November. When I asked again mid-November for an update, they had just received the delivery but they had already all been sold.

                                              When I spoke to them by phone, I realised that I should have ‘back ordered’ the lathe which I have now done. The next batch is expected late January or early February so hopefully I will be able to get one then.

                                              If you decide on the Warco and want your mill in March, I would suggest ordering now!

                                              Stuart

                                              Thanks for the heads up Stuart!

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