Hi Brian welcome to the forum. It sounds like you have a good selection of machinery. Where are you based as it sometimes helps to give local knowledge and supliers.

David

Hi Brian,

Welcome to the forum – yet another useful source of fact and not just opinion.

I note you have ‘fat fingers’ like a lot of us, on occasions (j instead of n – unless ‘jot’ is a word with more than two meanings!).

What is a ‘fee machine’? A technical term, or more fat fingers? ‘Cos I don’t have a clue.

Hi Brian

welcome to the forum – I am a relatively new member myself.

Your intro is very philosophical! but I think I understand what you are saying regarding our younger generation. At the last employment I had, I looked after an engineering apprentice in our small development workshop. Solving problems was a daily challenge. I tried to get our apprentice to think for herself rather than being told what to do. One day there was a problem with the CNC mill, so I said "right Amber, what do you think is going wrong here?" She replied "I don't know, I haven't been taught that yet!" This seemed to sum up the problem with modern education right there in that statement – to me any way. I replied "I haven't been taught that yet either! Your education has given you a foundation but you have to learn to THINK and use logic and deduction to solve problems yourself, otherwise you will always limit yourself to what you have been taught".

I also had a young graduate engineer with a degree in aeronautical engineering….he was employed alongside me as a Design Engineer. One day we had a need to go into the workshop to quickly knock up a prototype. I gave him a handsaw and asked him to cut some lengths of wood. He got hold of the saw awkwardly and asked "how do you use this?" To all those of you who think I am joking, please believe me when I say, I wish I was!!

I for one would like to hear about your craft development at the hands of a true master….its funny because I don't remember your name and I normally remember the names of those who studied under me…..only kidding :-0, tell us your story please…

Graham

Edited By Graham Williams 12 on 12/10/2019 23:17:10

But beware: elderly gentlemen have moaned about the hopeless young being since before the dawn of time. I submit the old chaps have always been wrong. Mature men forget that practical skills have to be developed through experience.

In defence of newbies, although sawing is fairly obvious, doing it properly ain't so easy. It requires 'muscle memory', which only comes with practice. Most workshop skills are easy when you know how and have a repertoire of practised techniques. If you press the average craftsman to explain how he would make a saw from first principles, it likely becomes apparent he's a user rather than an engineer. Being able to use a saw is a different skill to knowing how to make one and it's not necessary to do both. The awful truth about the modern world is no-one understands everything: we all depend utterly on the expertise of others.

Let me suggest a slightly different version of the saw story. Imagine I'm a Concert Pianist meeting a youngster trained in Classical Guitar for the first time. Perhaps the boy is a Gold Medallist. Wouldn't it be a mistake for me to expect him do a good job on Liszt’s “La Campanella”? After all it's obvious how a piano is played – you just have to bang the keys in the right order and at the right time.

Another mistake is believing craft skills are somehow more valuable than academic learning based on science. Rather the opposite: one of the goals of manufacturing is to eliminate craft skills. It's not because craft skills aren't respected, or are redundant, it's because craft methods are gob-smackingly expensive. Cheaper to replace skilled men with machines, ideally fully automatic, or drivable after a short training session. In this environment the youngster is more likely to make his living by understanding CAD/CAM instead of tape-measures and screwdrivers. The advantage is you and I can enjoy life's comforts without having to pay for high priced craft-work. The disadvantage is it assumes humanities end-goal is wealth and comfort rather than a sustainable future and enjoyable jobs.

As I've aged I've mostly forgotten my youthful struggle to understand the world and how it worked. Thinking youngsters are idiots is my mistake, not theirs.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/10/2019 12:29:32

Edited By Graham Williams 12 on 13/10/2019 13:44:44

Brian, out of interest what bows do you make? I have an interest as I used to shoot compound bow competitively

Graham

Hi Brian,

yes, I can see the attraction in that… and 856 yards is a loooong way. Certainly get plenty of exercise doing that as well! Interesting that the crossbow distance is less! Congratulations on your titles.

i shot compound in the Oxfordshire team and for two local clubs. In a lot of the competitions I entered at that time (it’s going back a few years now) I came second most of the time, as I shot in the same club as the British compound champion at that time!

Any projects in the pipeline apart from the archery?

Graham

Hi Brian

pm sent

Graham