Our world in IR (infrared)

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Our world in IR (infrared)

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  • #636473
    Sam Stones
    Participant
      @samstones42903

      Irrespective of it being a sponsored video, this would have to be fifteen minutes worth of anybody’s time.

      Engineer, Matthias Wandel, explores his (home-in-winter) surroundings with a thermal imaging camera.

      He calls it – 'Exploring the world in infrared with a thermal camera'.

      **LINK**

      Have fun,

      Sam smile d

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      #4010
      Sam Stones
      Participant
        @samstones42903
        #636480
        Ches Green UK
        Participant
          @chesgreenuk

          Sam,

          That was very interesting. I haven't seen such a well presented video of the Normal -v- IR view before …. quite enlightening

          Looks like the IR is available for our friends at AliExpress (assuming this isn't a copy?) for about £280, which seems to be about the going rate for these things these days.

          TOPDON TC004 Infrared Thermal Imager –
          https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005167477439.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21GBP%21%EF%BF%A1402.04%21%EF%BF%A1277.41%21%21%21%21%21%402101d1af16781800743016612ee49d%2112000031946460525%21btf&_t=pvid:a924bf0d-9654-4e85-aa04-0b39f4a70c09&afTraceInfo=1005005167477439__pc__pcBridgePPC__xxxxxx__1678180074&spm=a2g0o.ppclist.product.mainProduct

          The TC004 is a handheld thermal camera that measures a wide range of temperatures, from -20°C to 350°C (-4°F to +662°F), and offers a 12-hour runtime. The high-resolution 256*192 pixel infrared camera allows you to say goodbye to blurry images. The tool is ready for analysis with the standalone and the PC modes, enabling users to project and upload images from the TC to their PC.

          Ches

          #636488
          John Rutzen
          Participant
            @johnrutzen76569

            Hi, it's quite an easy and interesting project to convert an old digital camera to infra red. I've done it on a couple of old cameras. It involves removing the infra red stop filter that covers the sensor and adding a visible light stop filter over the lens using the filter thread. The last one I did cost me £15 on ebay.

            #636497
            John Doe 2
            Participant
              @johndoe2

              Now that is interesting.

              I have been looking at IR cameras, but they don't have very good resolution, unless you spend getting on for £2k.

              However, converting a digital camera might be the answer – if it is basically removing an IR filter and putting another filter over the lens.

              I will watch the video above, but could you tell us more or refer to a good source of explanation?

              #636502
              Ian Parkin
              Participant
                @ianparkin39383

                Whilst converting a digital camera or indeed using a film camera and IR sensitive film will get you IR images they are nothing like what you get from a camera like the one in the video..just like this

                d651c625-283a-4a01-bf53-b79b93caeb81.jpeg

                This is my heat seeking camera (for want of a better description)

                7ecdcf3c-2aeb-42d8-ac29-1de3143e5d7e.jpeg

                I use this a fair amount in my day job looking in electrical cabinets circuit boards and motors and pumps and bearings on large machinery

                this ones about £900 or so as you can see it has 2 cameras one for visible and one for ir which are overlaid to make the heat image

                61fafef9-41ca-4032-b197-b1e0bbfd1369.jpeg

                #636558
                John Rutzen
                Participant
                  @johnrutzen76569

                  Hi, there are a number of videos on Youtube about converting specific cameras. I bought a Samsung one and it was very easy to do. The filter fitted on a 52mm thread which I epoxied onto the front of the lens. The pictures come out with a reddish tinge so you need to do a bit of fiddling around with the colours – I used Iphoto but you can also use GiMP. I'll post a picture if I can figure out how to do it.

                  #637185
                  John Rutzen
                  Participant
                    @johnrutzen76569

                    This is an IR image taken with my Samsung WB500 converted to Infra Red.sdc10451.jpg

                    #637196
                    Robert Atkinson 2
                    Participant
                      @robertatkinson2

                      Themal imaging (TI) and Infrared (IR) imaging are differerent things. The wavelength for infrared starts at around 800 nm where thermal imaging cameras typically use 8-14um ( a difference of 100,000 times longer). The entire visual range is only 380-760nm a ratio of two to one.
                      The other difference is IR uses a external source of radiation (light) either natual or man-made whle TI uses the energy emitted but the object itself. IR won't se a person in a cave without a light, TI will.
                      TI imagers vary considerably in performance, particuarly resolution and frame rate. Units with frame rates higher than about 10 Hz can have export restrictions. A lot of cheap TI cameras merge a low resolution TI image with a visual image to make it look like high resolution.

                      Robert.

                      #637217
                      george baker 1
                      Participant
                        @georgebaker1

                        Hi

                        I'd like to know how to do the conversion as well. What do we look for with the visible light blocker?

                        George

                        #637218
                        bernard towers
                        Participant
                          @bernardtowers37738

                          As George would be interested in how to do as I have a redundant Digi 2 begging for work.

                          #637230
                          Ian Parkin
                          Participant
                            @ianparkin39383

                            To convert a camera you disassemble it …remove a filter from the front of the sensor reassemble and then use a 720nm filter on the lens

                            lots of tutorials on YouTube for various cameras

                            i have done a few dslr’s but compacts are easier

                            #637233
                            Anonymous

                              For the original posting (thermal) application the Seek Thermal Camera (for phones, tablets etc) is reasonably affordable. Amazon carries them. (AliExpress has some really low prices too but they seem to be of the "you can't be sure what you're really buying" kind).

                              I have one which I got just before life got really complicated at a personal level so I haven't used it much. I did go around the shop and it told me what gets hot on the machines. What I want to do while it's still around freezing (in Ontario) is to look at the house from outside and see where the major heat leaks are.

                              #637323
                              John Doe 2
                              Participant
                                @johndoe2

                                Ah, I see the confusion. Yes, I was thinking of thermal imaging, not infra red photography.

                                I want something to look at the heat, (or cold), of machines, circuits and house walls and doors etc. There are some available but the cheaper ones have very low resolution – I need more detail than just a vague splodge. The good ones are very expensive, so am on the look out for a reasonable compromise.

                                Edited By John Doe 2 on 12/03/2023 11:41:16

                                #637327
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  Posted by John Doe 2 on 12/03/2023 11:39:05:

                                  […]

                                  I want something to look at the heat, (or cold), of machines, circuits and house walls and doors etc. There are some available but the cheaper ones have very low resolution – I need more detail than just a vague splodge. […]

                                  .

                                  Then the one in the opening post looks just the job

                                  Thirty-odd years ago, that sort of performance was real cutting-edge stuff … I remember we hired a KODAK one for a couple of days, at considerable expense, for a job in our climatic chamber.

                                  People came from all over the site, just to see the wonder of it !!

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #637334
                                  Martin Kyte
                                  Participant
                                    @martinkyte99762

                                    bees.jpg
                                    This was one of our Lab bee hives last year. The bees look nice and snug.

                                    regards Martin

                                    #637406
                                    Anonymous
                                      Posted by Michael Gilligan on 12/03/2023 11:58:55:

                                      Thirty-odd years ago, that sort of performance was real cutting-edge stuff … I remember we hired a KODAK one for a couple of days, at considerable expense, for a job in our climatic chamber.

                                      In the early '70's working on satellites we use to test large solar arrays by reverse-biasing them and viewing with a liquid nitrogen cooled camera. Individual dead cells would show up quite nicely.

                                      Expensive as all-get-out to rent the camera but there was plenty of money around in the space business at that time. For hardware at least.

                                      #637472
                                      John Doe 2
                                      Participant
                                        @johndoe2
                                        Posted by Michael Gilligan.

                                        Then the one in the opening post looks just the job…

                                        MichaelG.

                                        It does indeed, as do the Topdon company, who seem to be very switched-on cookies, but who make reasonably priced goods; hundreds of pounds rather than thousands.

                                        Just deciding whether to go for their iPhone plug-in thermal imaging camera or their stand-alone one.

                                        #637536
                                        Sam Stones
                                        Participant
                                          @samstones42903

                                          The following may prove useful…

                                          On 3 Mar 2023, during one of his many videos, Big Clive described

                                          Fixing a faulty tachometer

                                          **LINK**

                                          At 2:30 into the video, he begins to use a thermal camera module. He says in his notes…

                                          This is the first task for my new Infiray thermal camera module. It performed flawlessly. By request, here's a link to the AliExpress listing I bought the thermal imaging camera from. The price should be around £200, so shop about if they increase the price too much. **LINK**

                                          Hope that helps.

                                          Sam smile d

                                          Edited By Sam Stones on 13/03/2023 19:39:47

                                          #637543
                                          Michael Gilligan
                                          Participant
                                            @michaelgilligan61133

                                            Very impressive demonstration, Sam yes

                                            MichaelG.

                                            #689548
                                            Michael Gilligan
                                            Participant
                                              @michaelgilligan61133

                                              As technology moves so fast … and price/performance ratio often improves: I would be grateful for an update on the affordable Thermal Imaging devices, if anyone has recent experience.

                                              MichaelG.

                                              #689609
                                              Robert Atkinson 2
                                              Participant
                                                @robertatkinson2

                                                Firstly, The OP was about thermal imaging not IR. Thermal imaging relies on IR energy being emitted from an item due to it’s temperature. IR imaging detects IR energy from an external source (sun, filtered lamp, LED) being reflected from or absorbed by the surface of the item being imaged. Thias is the same as normal photography but at a wavelength “colour” we can’t see. Thermal imaging uses wavelengthes even further from the visible range.
                                                You cannot convert a visual camera to a themal imager.

                                                The maker of the video clearly does not understand how thermal imaging works. The reason for the hung up coats appearing hotter is due to their surface emission properties. If at the same temperature a pure black surface will emit more IR energy than polished metallic one. Thus the coats “look” hotter than the lighter wall behind them. You cannot accurately measure temperature using IR unless you know and compensate for the surface emissivity.
                                                The thermal images in the video seem very sharp to me given the claimed resolution. Maybe the video has been processed.
                                                Clearly there have been huge advances in technolgy but this is a imaging device not a measurement instument.  I’ve used most types of thermal cameras personally and professionally for about 30 years and IR for 40.

                                                #689661
                                                Michael Gilligan
                                                Participant
                                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                                  On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

                                                  Firstly, The OP was about thermal imaging not IR. …

                                                  and surely, Robert, you know me sufficiently  well to realise that if I ask about Thermal Imaging devices … then that is my current area of interest.

                                                  MichaelG.

                                                   

                                                  #689703
                                                  S K
                                                  Participant
                                                    @sk20060

                                                    Photons are photons, and the difference between “thermal imaging” and “IR imaging” is mostly just semantics.

                                                    Normal digital cameras use silicon sensors, which are not capable of detecting wavelengths greater than around 1100 nm. That’s already well outside the range of human vision and hence could be called “infrared.”

                                                    Deeper IR cameras require different technologies, e.g. smaller band-gap semiconductors or bolometer (electrical thermometer) arrays, or even superconducting arrays. To image deep IR, you also need to cool the sensor, or else the ambient temperature will flood the image with noise. The Webb space telescope is an IR one, and enormous efforts were made to keep its sensors as cool as possible.

                                                    Nearly all digital cameras have an IR filter in front of the sensor array to block IR wavelengths. This is because glass bends light differently depending on the wavelength of the light, and lenses are generally designed to properly focus light in normal visual wavelengths. Since people don’t see in the infrared, allowing those wavelengths to be imaged too (at an incorrect focus point) will cause excessive blurriness.

                                                    Converting a digital camera to “IR” is done by removing the IR block filter (normally a very delicate operation), and then adding a very deep red – so deep it’s virtually black – filter in front of the lens to block all wavelengths that aren’t sub-visual.

                                                    Using an IR-modified digital camera is also a bit different. A traditional viewfinder would be virtually black and useless, though contemporary digital viewfinders or screens should still show something (likely dim or noisy). Long exposures are normally needed since so much less light is let through. Because the wavelength of the imaged light is longer, the imaging resolution is lower too, leading to a bit softer photos.

                                                    In the old days of film cameras, professional lenses were often marked with an IR focus offset. You would focus using a rangefinder (because the viewfinder would be black) and add an offset because the point of focus would now not be the same as with visual wavelengths. I’d expect that some modern per-pixel focus systems could handle this automatically if they are sensitive enough.

                                                    I’m not sure what those cheap IR imagers use, but based on the price, I’d expect they are just cheap, low resolution silicon sensors with an appropriate filter in front. By comparison, an IR-modified DSLR or mirrorless camera can produce stunningly beautiful and other-worldly photos.

                                                    #689712
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133

                                                      For the avoidance of doubt … I am interested in purchasing a Thermal Imaging Device, for the express purpose of surveying my bungalow for its insulation efficiency and such.

                                                      Calibrating the colours to actual temperatures would be helpful, but if that makes the device unaffordable, then I may need to accept qualitative comparisons.

                                                      The KODAK camera that we used about 40 years ago did what I want … but it was ‘state of the art’ at the time, and even hiring it was expensive then.

                                                      Things have obviously moved on, and I was hoping for a specific product recommendation from some forum member[s].

                                                      MichaelG.

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