cylinder liner

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cylinder liner

Viewing 19 posts - 1 through 19 (of 19 total)
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  • #39309
    peter warner
    Participant
      @peterwarner63189
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      #144313
      peter warner
      Participant
        @peterwarner63189

        Attempting to build a 3 cylinder radial engine,American design,ali cylinders,liner is 3/4" outside diameter 0.035" thick wall,material spec is 4130steel tube aircraft grade.Can't seem to find this anywhere,only need about 6"! Can anyone suggest a suitable substitute, or should make them out of cast iron?

        #144316
        Anonymous

          Pretty common tubing for aircraft construction, or home build cars, most aircraft suppliers will stock it. Try here:

          **LINK**

          Andrew

          #144317
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            You could also bore out a bit of EN8 but the tube looks an easier option.

            J

            #144331
            peter warner
            Participant
              @peterwarner63189

              Thanks Andrew,have ordered 12" length from the supplier you noted.

              Thanks JasonB for your EN8 suggestion.

              #144346
              ronan walsh
              Participant
                @ronanwalsh98054

                I thought cast iron was the material of choice for cylinder liners as it is a self lubricating material ?

                #144351
                Russ B
                Participant
                  @russb

                  4130 is, I believe know as 1.7218 25CrMo4 in europe

                   

                  I have this site saved in my bookmarks, and find it invaluable – but I guess it depends what you do for a living!!

                  This link will take you straight to 1.7218 and on that page under "equivalent grades" you see ASTM4130 under the USA equivalent. To find the grade, you'll see tabs across the top, one is called "equivalent grades" select that, (know where grade your came from….) click USA for this example, and pressing Ctrl+F in your browser will usually start a search, and inputting 4130, takes you down to the bottom "SAE4130" bingo……

                  **LINK**

                   

                  Edited By Russ B on 18/02/2014 20:25:53

                  #144352
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb
                    Posted by ronan walsh on 18/02/2014 20:04:21:

                    I thought cast iron was the material of choice for cylinder liners as it is a self lubricating material ?

                    Steel liner and a CI piston without rings is quite common on small glow and diesel engines of that sort of bore.

                    J

                    #144375
                    peter warner
                    Participant
                      @peterwarner63189

                      Thanks Ronan,I agree,but as this is my 1st attempt at an aero engine I;m trying to stick to the spec.

                      Thanks for the link Russ B,looks useful,I have bookmarked it.

                      #144493
                      Ian S C
                      Participant
                        @iansc

                        Peter, I'd go with JasonB, there is not too much difference friction wise, and the steel might be easier to work with. You will have a bit of work finishing the bore, and the outside needs to be reasonably finished too. I don't know the engine you intend to build, but my idea of a cylinder is a steel cylinder, with fins, and the head of aluminium shrunk, and screwed on, or held in place by long cylinder studs from the head to the crankcase. At least with AC spec chrome molly steel(4130), it is seamless. When you get it it is in the normalized condition, it can be heat treated to give it higher strength. Its a good steel for welding. Ian S C

                        #144503
                        peter warner
                        Participant
                          @peterwarner63189

                          Thanks Ian S C,

                          Received the 4130 tubing to day – what service from this supplier,I only needed a 12" length.The engine is a 3 cylinder radial called "Pip" American design,good drawings funny terminology,as usual separated by a common language.

                          Pete.

                          #144507
                          ronan walsh
                          Participant
                            @ronanwalsh98054

                            Isn't 4130 steel what is used in these fancy bicycle frames ? A trip to the local bike shop could have got you some perhaps ?

                            #144509
                            peter warner
                            Participant
                              @peterwarner63189

                              Don't know Ronan,a good thought,I wonder if they would have it as small as3/4" dia?

                              #144511
                              JasonB
                              Moderator
                                @jasonb

                                Thats quite a bit of work for a first aero engine, I presume you are using the plans from MEB. Here's a PIP for those that don't know it

                                 

                                Edited By JasonB on 20/02/2014 13:16:29

                                #144518
                                peter warner
                                Participant
                                  @peterwarner63189

                                  Thanks for the video JasonB,nice to see the finished article.I suppose I have taken on a big task,being a white haired old pensioner hope I live long enough to finish it! I bought the drawings from Littlelocos who are based in America,they come with a helpful booklet giving details of the jigs and fixtures used in building the prototype,and general machining details.

                                  #144548
                                  Ian S C
                                  Participant
                                    @iansc

                                    I'm not too sure, but the 4130 tube used on bike frames is welded, not the seamless stuff used in aviation, The seam in pipe is a right old pain when making cylinders.

                                    A good source of seamless tube, is the tube inside an automotive shock absorber, its a bit of a raffle getting the right size, but if you pull enough of them apart, you get a number of sizes, 25 mm to 35 mm is a good average. With my hot air engines being my own design, I can design around the tube that I have, rather than finding tube to fit someone else's design. The shocks also provide a good bit of chrome plated steel rod, and the outer case comes in handy at times too, my last use for that was a muffler for a 3hp Kawasaki motor. Ian S C

                                    #144550
                                    peter warner
                                    Participant
                                      @peterwarner63189

                                      Thanks Ian S C,a good source for quality material ,and recycling too,I often go to autojumbles so will look out for these items.Pete.

                                      #144554
                                      JasonB
                                      Moderator
                                        @jasonb

                                        Ian only the cheaper CrMo tubesets are welded, a decent quality frame will have seamless and butted tubes. The Butting is where the wall thickness varies along the tube to put more metal at the joints and less in the middle to save weight.

                                        J

                                        #144558
                                        Russ B
                                        Participant
                                          @russb

                                          Just to ensure everyone's on the same page here, "4130" is the material grade, nothing else – it could be plate, bar, tube (welded or seamless) angle etc etc etc

                                          You need to specify also what standard you want it made to if you need a specific type, such

                                          EN 10216-2 2002 – seamless for pressure purposes, with specific elevated temperature properties

                                          EN 10305-1 : 2010 – seamless, cold drawn (ie no heat treatment)

                                          EN10297-1 : 2003 – seamless circular steel tubes for general engineering purposes

                                          further investigation in to the above standards will reveal only certain sizes are available in each standard, so you might have to make do or change standard to get a particular outer and inner diameter.

                                          I generally always specify EN10216, for example "219.1 OD, 8.18 WALL to BS EN 10216-2 2002 1.7218 (25CrMo4)"

                                           

                                          Edited By Russ B on 21/02/2014 10:53:01

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