My ford lathe problem!

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My ford lathe problem!

Home Forums Model Engineer & Workshop My ford lathe problem!

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 26 total)
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  • #387028
    John Vickery
    Participant
      @johnvickery68803

      Hi guys, currently recently retired and undertaking Allchin 1.5 build. My problem…. my Myford lathe switched itself off, will restart in both forward and reverse but refuses to stay running, switch reverts to off position. The current switch from single phase supply is.a Kraus and Naimer CA 10x. Please can anyone help? Is the switch the problem? If so, can anyone suggest a reasonably priced replacement? Thank you

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      #38508
      John Vickery
      Participant
        @johnvickery68803
        #387043
        Brian Wood
        Participant
          @brianwood45127

          Hello John,

          Welcome to the forum, I hope we can help you

          Is this a sudden failure from what was a fully functioning switch?

          Regards

          Brian

          Edited By Brian Wood on 22/12/2018 10:24:21

          #387047
          John Vickery
          Participant
            @johnvickery68803

            Hi Brian, thanks for your prompt response. Yes, the lathe was working perfectly until I turned it on after returning from a hospital stay (!)

            Regards, John

            #387050
            Les Jones 1
            Participant
              @lesjones1

              Hi John,
              I am not familiar with the Kraus and Naimer CA 10x switch but by looking on the web it looks like just a reversing switch with no overload protection. Does it lookf:0″> like this ?

               

              When the lathe stops do you have to wait for some time before it will restart or will it restart straight away ? Is this switch the only control or is there a push button stop and start switch ? About how long does it run for before stopping ?

              Les.

               

              Edited By Les Jones 1 on 22/12/2018 10:50:42

              Edited By Les Jones 1 on 22/12/2018 10:54:02

              Edited By Les Jones 1 on 22/12/2018 10:58:09

              Edited By Les Jones 1 on 22/12/2018 11:02:31

              #387054
              Simon Williams 3
              Participant
                @simonwilliams3

                Good morning John, if I remember right this is a blue cam switch, with a three position knob on the front of a silver fascia plate. I've just tried to lift a picture out of the K & N catalogue but it only comes as a pdf which I can't put in an album.

                It's some while since I had one of these switches to pieces, but I think that the detent mechanism is behind the switch fascia, There is a nylon cam and a spring which controls whether the cam mechanism stays put or returns to centre or what, and it sounds as though this has failed or got worn out. Whether it is repairable is a whole different can of worms.

                Don't take the black switch body to pieces – there is any number of little bits of brass and things hiding in there waiting to jump on the floor.

                If you want to have a go at the detent mechanism take the knob off the front by loosening the little screw in the centre of the knob, don't undo completely it's only a clamp, then pry the silver fascia out of the black surround at the front of the panel. This exposes four screws which mount the switch to the panel. Undo them and push the switch body off the back of the panel. Now you should be able to work out how to take the front off the switch cam to see the detent mechanism. The down side of this of course is – quite apart from the intricacies of getting to this point – it may not be obvious what is missing.

                Last time I tried this I managed to get it to bits but gave up trying to put it back together, I needed more hands than an octopus. You'd be better off buying a new one, but be careful to specify the right thing as they all look the same on the outside, but the arrangement of the internals is crucial. I think City Electrical Factors are agents for K & N.

                Alternatively this looks like the right thing, **LINK**

                and at least you know where you're starting from. I would think you want the 2 pole changeover for a single phase reversing switch so that looks like option CO202 (20 amp 2 pole). It may not be obvious how to connect the new switch to the old wiring, it should come with a diagram which describes what to do.

                Good luck, and all the best Simon

                #387057
                Brian Wood
                Participant
                  @brianwood45127

                  Hello John,

                  I have a 4 way switch by these makers that allows me to select different poles for speed control in an old induction motor salvaged from a washing machine that is hooked up to my drill.

                  These rotary switches don't have any mechanism built into them to return to an OFF position. The only restraint as far as I know is the usual sort of ball bearing click action to hold the switch in position for that particular set of contact arrangements to select a chosen direction of motor running

                  I can see no good reason at all for it to fail in this way. Current loading on the contacts, even if heavy, would not have this effect.

                  No, sorry—-you have stumped me on this one

                  Brian

                  #387083
                  John Vickery
                  Participant
                    @johnvickery68803

                    Hi again. Yes, I'm at loss to know why this might be happening because lathe was running fine and then switched its self off. As soon as I release the switch it turns off. I've tried, unsuccessfully, to load a picture of the switch. It doesn't look quite like any of the link pictures sent by Les, it does have A401 printed on top of the block? Like you, I'm left scratching my head..but thanks for your support!

                    BW John

                    #387087
                    Les Jones 1
                    Participant
                      @lesjones1

                      Hi John,
                      Can you confirm that the switch actually jumps back to the off position ? I was assuming it stayed in the forward or reverse position but the motor stopped. I think the type number refers to a range of switches and the "X" will be replaced with some code that gives the number of poles and positions.

                      Les.

                      #387091
                      John Vickery
                      Participant
                        @johnvickery68803

                        Hi Les, if I hold the switch in either forward or reverse, the motor will continue to run, once I release it it 'springs' back to the central, off position. I looked at the Krauser and Namier catalogue online and the X appears to relate to a 'power failure release' component of the switch.

                        #387107
                        Les Jones 1
                        Participant
                          @lesjones1

                          Hi John,
                          I found their 2017 catalogue online but did not fond anything about the power failure release. Is there a coil assembley on your switch ? If so there is probably a contact that keeps that held energised in the foreward or reverse position. If that contact is intermittent it would cause it to drop out and cause the switch to return to the off position, It could also be the mechanism that holds the switch in the forward or reverse position that is faulty. It may only be dirty or needs a drop of oil. If you can post some pictures it may help.

                          Les.

                          #387124
                          Clive Brown 1
                          Participant
                            @clivebrown1

                            Assuming that the switch is goosed and at the risk of upsetting the electricians, for a cheap solution, why not just a 13 amp plug and switched socket?

                            The reversing function is not very useful on a Myford 7, potentially a liability  with the screwed mandrel nose. (How do I know when I've got a Boxford? That's the reason for the only mark on my lathe bed.)

                            Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 22/12/2018 15:53:20

                            Edited By Clive Brown 1 on 22/12/2018 16:01:35

                            #387144
                            Robbo
                            Participant
                              @robbo

                              Sounds like John's switch is the one specifically used for Myfords, is in a substantial cast housing, and came with specific wiring instructions for Myford use. I have an unused one "on the shelf", but have never tested it.

                              These are not like the smaller switches with a cam and spring lock to hold the switchgear in place, but have a built in NVR capability. If there is no voltage flowing then the knob will return to the off position.

                              Seems like the NVR coil has called it a day, or become disconnected, so the contacts can only be kept closed by holding the knob in place.

                              A picture of the switch will help identify it

                              Edit – must acknowledge Mrs Robbo's help in typing this wink

                              Edited By Robbo on 22/12/2018 17:54:26

                              #387150
                              John Vickery
                              Participant
                                @johnvickery68803

                                Hi Robbo, this sounds exactly the issues I'm having! I have a picture but (even with Mrs V's help!) I cannot upload it to this site. If you could give me an email address I can send the picture, but I don't know if that's something people do on these forums and if it's an inappropriate suggestion.. I apologise!

                                The unused one on your shelf… is it for sale?

                                BW, John

                                #387151
                                Grizzly bear
                                Participant
                                  @grizzlybear

                                  John V,

                                  You have to create an album, then place your pictures in it.

                                  Search the forum for info.

                                  Good luck, bear..

                                  #387154
                                  John Vickery
                                  Participant
                                    @johnvickery68803

                                    img_0093 (1).jpg

                                    #387155
                                    John Vickery
                                    Participant
                                      @johnvickery68803

                                      Thank you Grizzly Bear! MrsV is learning so much this afternoon!

                                      #387164
                                      Les Jones 1
                                      Participant
                                        @lesjones1

                                        Hi John,
                                        I have had another thought. If there are any interlock switches on a chuck guard or cover over the belts or anything else they would be wired in series with the NVR coil. If there are interlocks it would be worth making sure that they show continuity when closed. Is it possible to get the switch out of the box so we can see the underneath of it ? I expect there to be two wires going to the black part at the front of the switch. If there are can you measure the resistance between the ends to see if the NVR coil is open circuit ?

                                        Les.

                                        #387168
                                        John Vickery
                                        Participant
                                          @johnvickery68803

                                          Thanks Les. I'm sure that Robbie has identified the problem for me and I'm thinking that a replacement switch is going to have to be the answer. The coil failure makes sense to me as there didn't seem to be a mechanical lock on the positioning of the switch. Once Christmas is over I will contact the supplier that Simon suggested unless the one on Robbo's shelf is available.

                                          Can I thank everyone who has responded… I've been genuinely amazed by the generosity of your time and expertise! I think this is a 'solved' issue but I will return if I still have problems.

                                          BW John.

                                          #387308
                                          Robbo
                                          Participant
                                            @robbo

                                            John

                                            After a Doctor visit this morning can manage to do this myself without too many shakes, so have taken a pic of my switch which seems the same as yours. Pics below

                                            If you check out the items noted by Les Jones, who is a whizz at this electrics lark, and still need a replacement, then let me know.

                                            I will send you a message with my email address, pick up the message from your Inbox at the left hand of the green bar at top.

                                            dscn6077.jpgdscn6076.jpg

                                            #387391
                                            John Vickery
                                            Participant
                                              @johnvickery68803

                                              Hi Robbo. Pleased to hear you are feeling better! Yes, this switch looks exactly like mine. Is this switch surplus to your requirements and if so are you prepepared to sell…. and how much? I’m in Devon so it would have to be a postal job.

                                              Regards, John

                                              #387424
                                              Robbo
                                              Participant
                                                @robbo

                                                John

                                                Better but not fixed! Still have a job getting the screwdriver blade into the slot without using 2 hands.

                                                I am supposed to be getting rid of any stuff not actually needed, so the switch can go and start a useful life.

                                                Back in the day I used to repair Myfords, usually switched with the dreaded Dewhurst rotary, and owners were very keen to have those renovated rather than replaced with one of these vastly superior switches. I haven't seen one of these for a very long time.

                                                If you open the message I sent we can sort out the details by email rather than in public. It won't cost you a lot laugh

                                                #387433
                                                john fletcher 1
                                                Participant
                                                  @johnfletcher1

                                                  Whilst your at it why not wire in a motor starter to give yourself No-volt protection and use it to turn on the power rather than the rotary switch. Select DOR ,then press the on green button, starters have large contact which are made to turn on motors. If you have the inclination to attempt to fix your existing rotary switch I suggest you dismantle it within a large clear plastic bag. The bag will capture any flying bits springs terminals etc, same with reassembling. Tricky job but can be done. If only Myford had fitted a motor starter interlocked with the dreaded Dewhirst all would have been well for the life of the lathe. John

                                                  #411197
                                                  JohnM
                                                  Participant
                                                    @johnm51917

                                                    I have the exact same switch and the exact same problem. Is there a chance someone can tell me which switch I need to replace mine please?

                                                    #411244
                                                    JohnM
                                                    Participant
                                                      @johnm51917

                                                      I wish I had read this post before all my little bits went flying everywhere

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