Derry, as you say an interesting letter as is Harold Hall`s in Scribe a Line page 62 particularly paras 4 & 5. I wonder how many people over the years have jumped in at the deep end with little or no experience & eventually just quietly gave up having realised that a bit of experience & enough cash to replace all the broken taps, drills etc whilst "learning". This is probably the source of many of the adverts on the various forums, Ebay etc of those " partly completed castings" or "untouched kit" etc etc.

I don`t know what Brian`s experience is probably more than he lets on but maybe not, though I do agree that breaking it down into small jobs is the way to go but this in itself can lead to problems later on when you start assembling all the little bits& discover that some are too big/small to fit where they are supposed to fit because of a drawing error or dare I say because you`ve made it too big/small.

I symphasise with David no matter what he does he won`t please everyone all the time look at the flak about pages of g code etc but such is life. So good luck Brian i hope you don`t break too many taps in that expensive cylinder but there are ways of getting the broken bits out you know !

Regards Alan

Ian subscribers get their copies a week earlier than they go on sale!!

Edited By Flying Fifer on 10/03/2012 23:42:04

I don't think there are many that try to make a Black Art of it, most are more than willing to share their knowledge BUT there are ways of making the learning curve a bit less painful – starting on small projects, rather than expensive big castings is one of them.

I think the problem with starting a big build straight off is that any failure along the path to completion could cost a lot of money and be a serious dent to confidence. I have not built any models – I make tooling from MEW articles or the WPS books or make bits for my motorbikes, but I have had enough failures along the way to provide stern reminders about over confidence or enthusiasm, running before I can walk!

There are many lessons to learn and they do successively build on each other. I have enough broken taps to remind me every day of the week how to do it incorrectly!

As I said, I haven't built anything, but aren't such activities a succession of activities which do not go into the detail as to how to accomplish each step? In which case they would be daunting for a newbie.

John (newbie of 2 years)

Hi Guys,

I would have replied to some of these posts sooner but I didn't know the letter had been published.

To come clean about my experience, I have had quite a lot of experience in re-furbishing machine tools. Specifically, (long ago) a Myford Super 7 and an Archdale vertical mill which I intended to use for model engineering. But I worked a long way from home and was tired and children came along so I never used them for anything other than tinkering – repairing things around the home and the car and so on.

I was never really happy with either of them because, although I refurbished them quite well cosmetically, they were never really first class so, as I neared retirement, I sold them and bought some new machines.

But I still didn't know what I wanted to do with them!

When I actually retired I bought a Boxford shaper, in a fairly disgusting condition, and re-furbished that. It works well and I'm pleased with my efforts but I did it really to give me something to do to get over that period just after retiring when most people are at a bit of a loss.

I recently did the same with a Boxford lathe but now it's time to do something that has some point to it. My wife is insisting on it!

So now comes the problem. Although I know how to use a lathe and milling machine and most other tools I've never actually made anything that had to be to any particular dimensions so – I'm a beginner.

I have always wanted to make a substantial steam locomotive but I've never really believed that I could do it. MAC's description of his experience in building his first locomotive, with a lot less experience in general machining than I have, has encouraged me to start and I'm on my way.

Now, the point of my letter was not that I wanted any questions answered but in response to David's request for "Beginner's Projects". I was suggesting that beginners do not really want "beginner's projects" but more advanced projects broken down into small pieces and well explained. Oldies, like me, haven't got the time to learn all the basics by making small items they don't want and youngsters won't have the patience because they won't see the point.

I accept the argument that people may get fed up with how long it takes to complete a whole model but, on the other hand, perhaps the pleasure of completing each small part and seeing a larger model taking shape will keep their interest. Perhaps not. Who knows. Everyone's different.

A lot of people will lose interest, whichever way they start, because they don't really want to do it – they just want the finished product. So the cost of getting to the stage of knowing whether they have a "vocation" or not has to reasonably low.

Looking a MAC's website it really does look as if someone with little experience can start something big and see it through – piece by piece.

Regards,

Brian.

I think the problem here is "learning". When I started off in earnest with my first lathe everything took ages and I kept making mistakes. But as you go on everything gets easier and now I find that you just start to work on that tricky part and somehow (usually but not always) things go swimmingly and suddenly it's finished and the right size and seemed much easier than you expected. They reckon that to become "expert" at something, whether it's playing the violin or making a chair, you need 10,000 hours practice – now I've got nothing near that, but it's true that any skill that needs a combination of manual skill and careful thought takes a long time to become second nature. So there's no substitute for practice and you just have to get used to it. It's much safer to start on a toolmaker's clamp since (a) if you mess up then there isn't much wasted and (b) once it's finished you'll probably use it for the rest of your life. Also those little projects give you quick feedback and encouragement since you get something finished and useful quickly. But a finished cylinder or loco driving wheel in itself is no use at all. There's also something about the journey being more important that the destination here…

Hi, I was fortunate to being taught how to use tools by my farther from as early as I can remember. Although I wasn't allowed to use them at the preschool age I do remember watching my dad using them, and was also allowed to watch him use his little lathe (which I still have) I had the advantage of doing metal work throughout my secondary school years, but my dad always said that I had a natural ability for using tools of various types, and I think he was correct, however I still had to have practical experience to make things to a suitable standard, that is, when I look at one or two things that I made at school I can now see the slight errors in them which I couldn't see at the time.

I think that not every one who embarks on any type of metal work will succeed with their quest, and will give it up (I was like that when I thought I could learn to play the bass guitar, I was absolutely U/S at it, so I gave it up and sold it) others will pick it up and didn't realise they had such an ability, but I think that most of us will feel our own work in different areas is not quite as good as someone else's. I say if you have a feeling for making something a bit more adventurous, then give it ago, you won't know till you try, but you must bear in mind you may make a costly mistake, but then if you haven't made a mistake then you haven't made much at all.

Ian P, subscribers get their copies about a week before they are in the shops or on the digital issues, MEW 188 is supposed to be on sale on the 16th March.

Regards Nick.

We will change home page on the day the magazine goes on sale in the shops.

The digital editoin is updated by the office.

We (the editors) have no control over this.

regards David

That's rather a broad brush statement Brian. When real engineering etc courses in schools were abandoned for 'Blue Peter' (for want of a better description) technology, I used to run after school, voluntary 'Introductory Engineering Metalwork 'classes for anyone who wanted to turn up. They proved very popular with quite a few students and the favourite project was a simple toolmakers clamp. The act of using a milling machine, drill press, taps. dies and a few hand tools to produce a product comparable to a commercially produced item in a short space of time (yes, the blacking was excellent) certainly was thrilling for them.

It was a real 'grown up' activity in their 15 year old eyes. Furthermore it was almost inevitably a successful and useful end product which led to increased self confidence and often determination to do better, and as any educator will tell you nothing inspires like success and nothing demotivates like failure.

Every so often now that I'm retired I meet one of these young people who thank me for the inspiration I afforded and many went on to become professional engineers. The humble toolmakers clamp has a lot to answer for.

Best regards

Terry

Thanks Dave, but please ease of a little, else I may need to go out a buy myself some bigger hats, leaving me with less cash for the workshop.

Harold

I aspire to this – but it is why at 53 I come home with blood from falling off the bike

The Cape

Eight years old with flour sack cape
Tied all around his neck
He climbed up on the garage
Figurin' what the heck
He screwed his courage up so tight
The whole thing come unwound
He got a runnin' start and bless his heart
He headed for the ground

He's one of those who knows that life
Is just a leap of faith
Spread your arms and hold your breath
Always trust your cape

All grown up with a flour sack cape
Tied all around his dream
He's full of piss and vinegar
He's bustin' at the seams
He licked his finger and checked the wind
It's gonna be do or die
He wasn't scared of nothin', Boys
He was pretty sure he could fly

He's one of those who knows that life
Is just a leap of faith
Spread your arms and hold your breath
Always trust your cape

Old and grey with a flour sack cape
Tied all around his head
He's still jumpin' off the garage
And will be till he's dead
All these years the people said
He's actin' like a kid
He did not know he could not fly
So he did

He's one of those who knows that life
Is just a leap of faith
Spread your arms and hold your breath
Always trust your cape

"The Cape" – Guy Clark – 1995