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  • #140189
    doubletop
    Participant
      @doubletop

      I subscribe to Model Engineer for articles related to the engineering aspects of making models. I subscribe to Model Engineering Workshop for articles relating to tools, equipment, workshop practice etc. I'm not really fussed what the subject areas are in each magazine as long as they relate to the general expectations of each magazine.

      In ME4472 we have two articles that are clearly MEW subject matter, and they aren't one off’s they both are "to be continued". This confusion of the role of each magazine has been going on for some while now, particularly since the editor jobs were split.

      Should we expect that David and Diane actually liaise on their respective magazines content? Or is it the case that the writing on the wall for MEW? If ME continue to contain MEW type articles why would I bother to subscribe to both?

      Thoughts?

      Pete

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      #37624
      doubletop
      Participant
        @doubletop
        #140194
        Gray62
        Participant
          @gray62

          There has been much whining, moaning and griping in other posts regarding the content of ME and MEW.

          Whether Diane and David collaborate on content or not is of no consequence, if they have an article they see as suitable for the relative may, then it will get published. They can only publish from the selection that is submitted to them.

          Diane recently put her head above the parapet suggesting publishing an article on a universal grinding machine in ME, that raised a lot of naysayers from their armchairs, I for one would like to see that article run, it has relevance whichever may it is in, so no harm will come from running it in ME. Just like the other articles to which you are alluding.

          I for one do not think there is any 'writing on the wall'

          #140202
          Brian Wood
          Participant
            @brianwood45127

            I dropped ME many years ago in favour of MEW which is more aligned to my interests in machinery, methods and workshop innovations rather that building locomotives.

            I agree with Peter over the distribution of magazine content since I can only afford to subscribe to one of them. Some overlap is inevitable and probably beneficial, but it might be considered to be unreasonably dicriminatory if a long machine tool build series; or it's equivalent with a popular locomotive series, is published in the 'wrong' magazine.

            It will not please readers of either magazine long term and interest in both might wane as a result. So on balance I think the editors should compare content for the target audience.

            Brian

            #140203
            Diane Carney
            Moderator
              @dianecarney30678

              Pete

              Model Engineer has always included 'Workshop Topics', perhaps less so since the incarnation of MEW, but they have always been there. I have had nothing but positive feedback since I decided to aim for at least one 'Workshop Topic' per issue (which doesn't alway happen, I know). The two magazines still have their own distinct character – you are unlikely, for instance, to find any model making aritcle in MEW – but they complement each other and you may find that, in the future, this 'partnership' will be strengthened, to the benefit of both.
              Many readers have a strong preference for one or the other but some, like yourself, subscribe to both. Most practising model engineers will have some machine tools so it is therefore appropriate to publish some articles about them but most model engineers don't have, for example, CNC machines, so it is perhaps not appropriate to publish much of this type in ME.You wil find those in MEW. MEW is read not only by model makers but extensively by small engineering 'firms' or sole traders. No – the writing is not on the wall for MEW. Quite the opposite!

              Diane

              #140204
              Michael Gilligan
              Participant
                @michaelgilligan61133
                Posted by CoalBurner on 10/01/2014 09:36:13:

                Diane recently put her head above the parapet suggesting publishing an article on a universal grinding machine in ME, that raised a lot of naysayers from their armchairs, I for one would like to see that article run, it has relevance whichever may it is in, so no harm will come from running it in ME.

                .

                As one of the aforesaid naysayers …

                I do not subscribe to ME, because I am not interested in the majority of its locomotive-related content; and I could not justify buying a long run of issues just to read this series.

                Whilst I agree that the series might be of relevance to ME readers, I also know that many of these are not really interested in tool-making. … Isn't that why MEW was spun-off in the first place ?

                MichaelG.

                #140206
                Michael Gilligan
                Participant
                  @michaelgilligan61133
                  Posted by Diane Carney on 10/01/2014 10:06:33:

                  … you may find that, in the future, this 'partnership' will be strengthened, to the benefit of both.

                  .

                  Diane,

                  It may or may not fit the MTM business-model but [for this reader at least], this looks like an ideal opportunity to put the ePublishing side to work.

                  Why not make any series like this available as an eBook [to purchase at a reasonable price] to subscribers to the other magazine?

                  MichaelG.

                  #140208
                  OuBallie
                  Participant
                    @ouballie

                    Diane,

                    I second MichaelG's suggestion.

                    Geoff – Drawer organizing on final.

                    #140211
                    Brian Wood
                    Participant
                      @brianwood45127

                      Diane,

                      I also second Michael G's suggestion, good idea

                      Brian

                      #140212
                      IanT
                      Participant
                        @iant

                        I get both publications, so don't really mind either way.

                        What I would object to, would be the same material being published in both magazines, e.g. duplication (which as far as I am aware) has not happened thus far.

                        Regards,

                        IanT

                        #140223
                        Ian S C
                        Participant
                          @iansc

                          I'm not really sure why there was a split in the first place, ME did alright for near 100 years on its own, starting as "Model Engineer & Amateur Electrician". I think Diane is heading in the right direction. Ian S C

                          #140224
                          JasonB
                          Moderator
                            @jasonb

                            I'm with Pete and would prefer ME to be Models and MEW to be workshop, same as I said when the Grinder article came up.

                            I'm not that interested in making tooling so only subscribe to ME, I do have access to all of MEW but even so have not read one article.

                            I do get the feeling that some af the articles in ME are appearing there because authors would rather deal with one editor and not the other even if the subject is more suited to MEW, this should not be a deciding factor to which mag it ends up in.

                            J

                            #140229
                            Gray62
                            Participant
                              @gray62
                              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/01/2014 10:18:24:

                              As one of the aforesaid naysayers …

                              I do not subscribe to ME, because I am not interested in the majority of its locomotive-related content; and I could not justify buying a long run of issues just to read this series.

                              Whilst I agree that the series might be of relevance to ME readers, I also know that many of these are not really interested in tool-making. … Isn't that why MEW was spun-off in the first place ?

                              MichaelG.

                              So you 'KNOW' – factual hard evidence? that ME readers are not really interested in toolmaking?? A bold statement to make, I do hope you have hard facts to back that up, I do subscribe to ME and I AM interested in toolmaking as, I am sure, are many others and without hard fact to prove one way or another, it is not a given that toolmaking articles should not be run in ME.

                              #140232
                              Diane Carney
                              Moderator
                                @dianecarney30678

                                If we are still discussing the Universal Grinding Machine – that's some way in the future anyway and it hasn't been decided where it will go. If we are talking about Workshop Topics in general, I do think there is a place for them – for example the refurbishment of the ML7 in 4473 and the recent articles on shaping machines – have some relevance to most model engineers but possibly not so much to those a bit nearer to the cutting edge of workshop technology.

                                Diane

                                #140236
                                Gone Away
                                Participant
                                  @goneaway
                                  Posted by CoalBurner on 10/01/2014 14:13:42:

                                  Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/01/2014 10:18:24:

                                  …..I also know that many of these are not really interested in tool-making.

                                  So you 'KNOW' – factual hard evidence? that ME readers are not really interested in toolmaking??

                                  Interesting the way you tweak the argument in the quote. Michael uses the word "many", you carefully omit it.

                                  #140241
                                  Michael Gilligan
                                  Participant
                                    @michaelgilligan61133
                                    Posted by OMG on 10/01/2014 15:04:20:

                                    Posted by CoalBurner on 10/01/2014 14:13:42:

                                    Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/01/2014 10:18:24:

                                    …..I also know that many of these are not really interested in tool-making.

                                    So you 'KNOW' – factual hard evidence? that ME readers are not really interested in toolmaking??

                                    Interesting the way you tweak the argument in the quote. Michael uses the word "many", you carefully omit it.

                                    .

                                    Thank you.

                                    MichaelG.

                                    #140244
                                    Michael Gilligan
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelgilligan61133

                                      Posted by CoalBurner on 10/01/2014 14:13:42:

                                      [quote] So you 'KNOW' – factual hard evidence? that ME readers are not really interested in toolmaking?? A bold statement to make, I do hope you have hard facts to back that up, I do subscribe to ME and I AM interested in toolmaking as, I am sure, are many others and without hard fact to prove one way or another, it is not a given that toolmaking articles should not be run in ME. [/quote]

                                      .

                                      Please do not mis-quote me.

                                      MichaelG.

                                      #140248
                                      Gray62
                                      Participant
                                        @gray62

                                        Look carefully at where the quote marks are placed!!!!

                                        And OMG – no careful tweaking or purposeful omission at all, I simply missed typing the word many!

                                        Still a bold statement to make that one knows that many are not Interested, I would dearly like to see the figures that substantiate this claim.

                                        #140249
                                        Michael Gilligan
                                        Participant
                                          @michaelgilligan61133
                                          • Your quote marks were around the word KNOW … which you capitalised and I did not.
                                          • I wrote: "Whilst I agree that the series might be of relevance to ME readers, I also know that many of these are not really interested in tool-making. … Isn't that why MEW was spun-off in the first place ?"
                                          • You chose to interpret this as: "

                                            So you 'KNOW' – factual hard evidence? that ME readers are not really interested in toolmaking?? A bold statement to make, I do hope you have hard facts to back that up, I do subscribe to ME and I AM interested in toolmaking as, I am sure, are many others and without hard fact to prove one way or another, it is not a given that toolmaking articles should not be run in ME.

                                          .

                                          • My use of the word "know" was in the sense of "am aware that"
                                          • Your "shouting" " 'KNOW' – factual hard evidence? " puts a very different emphasis upon that innocent word.
                                          • However, for the avoidance of doubt, please let me rephrase the paragraph thus …

                                            Whilst I agree that the series might be of relevance to ME readers, I am also aware, [from personal acquaintances over the last forty years or so, and from reading many back-issues of ME] that a significant, albeit unspecified, percentage of these are not really interested in tool-making. … Isn't that why MEW was spun-off in the first place ?

                                          I am simply not prepared to be drawn into a fight about this.

                                          MichaelG.

                                          #140257
                                          Jeff Dayman
                                          Participant
                                            @jeffdayman43397

                                            Is the content/direction of a hobby magazine really worth pistols at dawn?

                                            Or even worth a word fight in a forum?

                                            If you don't like one mag or the other, don't buy it. MTM or whatever they are called this week will soon get the idea.

                                            JD

                                            #140262
                                            Michael Gilligan
                                            Participant
                                              @michaelgilligan61133
                                              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/01/2014 10:28:07:

                                              Posted by Diane Carney on 10/01/2014 10:06:33:

                                              … you may find that, in the future, this 'partnership' will be strengthened, to the benefit of both.

                                              .

                                              Diane,

                                              It may or may not fit the MTM business-model but [for this reader at least], this looks like an ideal opportunity to put the ePublishing side to work.

                                              Why not make any series like this available as an eBook [to purchase at a reasonable price] to subscribers to the other magazine?

                                              MichaelG.

                                              .

                                              Perhaps we could get back to discussing this … which I thought was a constructive suggestion.

                                              Geoff and Brian "seconded" it … are there any other opinions ?

                                              MichaelG.

                                              #140273
                                              jason udall
                                              Participant
                                                @jasonudall57142

                                                Micheal..I too think thats a good idea..please one project per book..maybe ads for OTHER project books but single project
                                                .priced by article pages.
                                                ..short article low cover price..
                                                Because articles are already type set. .these “collected” works might be simple to produce/ publish. .copyright not withstanding..maybe future article’s only ..
                                                If of low cost (to publisher)…a way of gaining extra revenue. .
                                                Heaven forbid might even be of benifit to readers..
                                                If copyright or revenue is a sticking point..maybe only available to subscribers .( you will have already paid for it once)…

                                                Or maybe allow subs to collate there own file from the archive?…

                                                #140308
                                                doubletop
                                                Participant
                                                  @doubletop

                                                  I didn’t intend to start a bun fight but moving on

                                                  Posted by Diane Carney on 10/01/2014 10:06:33:

                                                  I have had nothing but positive feedback since I decided to aim for at least one 'Workshop Topic' per issue (which doesn't always happen, I know). The two magazines still have their own distinct character – you are unlikely, for instance, to find any model making article in ME.

                                                  Diane

                                                  I'm in the positive feedback camp for ME. Every month there is something new that adds to the improving quality of the magazine. The articles "Problems of combustion in small i/c engines" and "locomotive adhesion" were cases in point. However, there have been a few articles in MEW that were marginally ME territory.

                                                  The point I was making was if the two magazines don’t ensure they retain their identities through their content they could come to the position where one or the other becomes irrelevant.

                                                  Posted by Ian S C on 10/01/2014 12:42:30:

                                                  I'm not really sure why there was a split in the first place, ME did alright for near 100 years on its own, starting as "Model Engineer & Amateur Electrician". I think Diane is heading in the right direction. Ian S C

                                                  I’m thinking along the lines of Ian. I imagine that some point back there was so much material available that a split was the obvious. MTM or whoever they were at the time had an opportunity increase their readership, and more importantly their advertising revenue.

                                                  Now that so much is done online on the various forums, including what could be seen as interactive build articles, I imagine that written articles are harder to come by *. There could well come a point when MTM, in order to maintain quality, may need to balance the economics of running what could become two similar magazines.

                                                  In my case on renewing my subscriptions ME is renewed without thinking about it, but with MEW I consider whether I want to do it every time. If it comes about that there is no point of difference between the two I’ll be dropping one in favour of one of the alternatives.

                                                  Pete

                                                  * (Stewart Hart has the right idea, he does both by posting builds online and then writing them up as articles.)

                                                  #140330
                                                  Lambton
                                                  Participant
                                                    @lambton

                                                    I have taken ME since 1961 mostly as a subscriber. In the last few years before Diane became the editor I was getting very disillusioned about the magazine and its contents and was on the point of giving up on my "old friend".

                                                    What a change Diane has brought about!

                                                    Although I do not build locos or traction engines I find the ME of today very readable, interesting and covers a wide range of interests.

                                                    Keep up the good work Diane and thank you for a super magazine.

                                                    Eric

                                                    #140340
                                                    Diane Carney
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @dianecarney30678

                                                      Thank you Eric. Your comments are very much appreciated. There are so many hours go into producing ME that it is great to know that it is heading the right way. Makes all this 'overtime' worthwhile. The first thing that has to be understood is that the Editor will never please everyone all the time. But, as you say, if there is enough variety, then each page might have something new so might be worth even a quick glance.
                                                      I have been in the Editor's chair almost a year now and I have found it a long, difficult job to try to re-engage writers who had become so disheartened. It's my hope that the improvements will be noticed and encourage more new, quality writers to come forward.

                                                      Diane

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