Hi Dave, according to their prohibitions and restrictions acids are banned, Parcelforce (Help & Advice)

Regards Nick.

Too late! Samsaranda has spilled the beans! Though there may not be any beans to spill.

'Spirits of Salts' is a hopeless old-fashioned generic name. The contents are dilute Hydrochloric Acid, but can be anything from an almost harmless domestic cleaning product to an industrial handle-with-care strong acid.

Only strong Hydrochloric Acid is worrying, and it's rendered safe by adding water. A spillage of dilute Hydrochloric Acid is unlikely to be a terrifying chemical accident.

Dave

I don't get this thread. Dave W knows there are rules about posting hazardous substances. Nevertheless, he orders such product, and then is not happy that it is delivered . Cakeism? Merry Xmas

That is a highly irresponsible attitude.
Shipping restrictions are there for a reason, for the safety of everyone. Leakage of acid can cause damage to other packages, injury to postal workers including blinding or at a worse case an aircraft crash. Even within the UK the Royal Mail use arcraft and more than one aircraft crash and many incidents have been caused by incorrectly shipped hazardous cargo.

john halfpenny
Dave W has every reason to expect that when he orders hazardous material that they will be properly packed, marked and sent by a suitable courier.

This nd similar incidents should be reported. For Royal Mail you can do it here

https://www.royalmail.com/report-a-crime

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 07/12/2022 22:27:19

Hi, I've never used spirit of salts, but I understand it's fairly powerful stuff. Back in 1966 we moved house, and the lavatory bowl in our new home had a thick unsightly brown stain covering the bottom and up a little above the water line, it was so bad that even strong bleach wouldn't shift it, so while all of us kids were at school one day, our dad got some spirit of salts from a local chemist and cleaned the bowl with it. When we came home and saw it we thought we had got a new bowl, as it was so bright and clean and not a trace of a brown stain in sight.

Regards Nick.

Perhaps SOD would like to dip his hands in it to show it’s not that dangerous! Dave W

10% hydrochloric acid is OK to dip your hands in – as long as they are rinsee off reasonably quickly, and you don’t have sensitive skin or cuts, etc. Not recommended as a general pastime, mind. 25%+ concentration would quite quickly cause redness, I would imagine. Only concentrated hydrochloric acid fumes.

thick unsightly brown stain covering the bottom and up a little above the water line, it was so bad that even strong bleach wouldn't shift it

Nick,

Bleach is an oxidising agent, so not designed to dissolve water hardness salts (with all sorts of inclusions). A strong acid will quickly dissolve calcium carbonate – and a load of other things, too!

Edited By not done it yet on 07/12/2022 22:57:17

Whilst certainly a breach of ParcelForce's conditions of carriage, this is not a meaningful breach of the ADR agreement as implemented by the Carriage of Dangerous Goods Regulations.

• In Table 3.2 of the 2021 ADR agreement, (available online on the UNECE website) there are two entries for Hydrochloric Acid (UN 1789) depending on the "packing group" a catagorisation which indicates the hazard posed and would be linked to concentration.
• For UN1789, PG II (the higher classification of hazard) column 3.4 indicates that the "limited quantity" is 1L (it's 5L for weaker Acid catagorised in PGIII).
• Under the limited quantity regulations, goods may be packaged in "inner packagings" of Plastics or Metal (or Glass/Stoneware where required for chemical compatiability with corrosive liquids) up to the volume specified in column 3.4 of table 3.2
• The inner packagings must then be securely packed into a secure "Outer Packaging" which protects the inner packagings from mechanical damage.
• So packaged, goods are effectively exempted from the requirements of the regulations, so long as the total quantity carried by any one transport unit is less than 8 tonnes, although each package or overpack should display the limited quantities diamond.

​

You could report this to the VCA and HSE as the shared competent authority, (i think this would fall into the HSE's jurisdiction as it relates to the consignment of goods and labeling, not to the vehicles or transport operations).

But I doubt that they would really care about what is effectively a missing diamond on an otherwise compliant package, and one which would be meaningless to almost everyone other than technical specialists in the field of DG transport anyway…

Certainly it wouldn't be worth it using their resources to take enforcement action.

​

All the major parcel operators including parcelforce are fully aware that customers routinely and flagrantly breach their conditions of carriage, with respect to liquids and dangerous goods.

Most larger parcel depots will collect several hundred kilogrammes each month of packages which have been identified as non-compliant, (often due to leaking) in dedicated bunded areas, which are subsequently sorted and identified for disposal/recycling by visiting chemists from a number of different specialist firms.

This has been the state of play for well over 15 years now, and it's well known to everyone involved, it's generally only when customers make really egregious breaches (such as sending dangerous goods which aren't packed in limited quantities, or which aren't eligible for that exemption, or cause a near miss where staff could have been harmed) that they will pursue fines or make a report to the competent authority, it simply wouldn't be practical any other way.

Not only volatiles and corrosives, Good old RM failed to deliver a couple of bottles of highly dangerous Steam Oil. Strangely enough, they didn't seem top have a problem with Ketone?????

Regards Ian.

As an (out of work) airline pilot, who amongst other duties spent a season flying cargo for the Royal Mail, and DHL etc, I would urge folk to be safe.

As part of our extensive pilot training, we do recurrent classroom lectures about Dangerous Goods and have to pass Dangerous Goods exams every couple of years. Dangerous goods must be known about and there are strict regulations about which dangerous goods can be packed next to other dangerous goods – to avoid chemical and physical reactions. So it is vital that the contents are correctly declared, packed and labelled.

We also do classroom lectures about aircraft fires, and practical fire fighting instruction and tests in aircraft mock-ups.

Aircraft have crashed and caused loss of life owing to undeclared or badly packaged dangerous goods. Undeclared or incorrectly packaged dangerous goods in aircraft is a definite no-no.

Sorry for the telling off !