Chinese draft angles

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Chinese draft angles

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Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
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  • #617042
    Robin
    Participant
      @robin

      I am mounting 2 XSY-AT1 VFD's using the 5mm bolt holes provided.

      I measure them with my new 200mm dial caliper.

      I drill them using 5 micron DRO scales for precise location.

      I go to insert a bolt and it doesn't fit. No room for the head.

      Curses, foiled again face 22

      (I didn't mean to start a new chapter in the tea room, get it right next time maybe, Sorry!).

      Edited By Robin on 12/10/2022 17:19:21

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      #37001
      Robin
      Participant
        @robin
        #617043
        Robert Holton
        Participant
          @robertholton69149

          That is an annoying problem. I presume you are fixing it to a bench, so why not grind the heads of your bolts to fit the machine, and then put nuts and washers on from underneath.

          Just a thought.

          Rob

          #617044
          Martin Connelly
          Participant
            @martinconnelly55370

            They are clearly clearance holes for M3 plus a large washer wink

            Martin C

            #617045
            not done it yet
            Participant
              @notdoneityet

              I go to insert a bolt and it doesn't fit. No room for the head.

              Maybe use a screw? Apart from possible errors with the new dial caliper or diameter selection?  Which bit of the process are we talking about?

              Thoroughly amazing that they did not come predrilled properly.

              VFDs, btw, should be mounted inside a suitable electrical enclosure, not screwed to anything flammable. Likely all in the installation instructions…. But perhaps you are only sitting them on the bench at the moment

              Edited By not done it yet on 12/10/2022 17:53:42

              #617047
              Robin
              Participant
                @robin

                I have already painted myself into a corner.

                Luckily I spotted a liana hanging from a light fitting. This allowed me to swing up, Tarzan style, to get this aerial picture…

                #617063
                alan ord 2
                Participant
                  @alanord2

                  Try cap head screws.

                  #617071
                  Kiwi Bloke
                  Participant
                    @kiwibloke62605

                    Perhaps tap the holes, and fix from t'other side – to a sub-plate if no access from that side for fixing to whatever.

                    One wonders how stuff can leave the factory with such howlers…

                    #617076
                    Ian P
                    Participant
                      @ianp

                      I think its a bit unfair to blame the Chinese for this! The HuanYang inverters are a low cost commodity item and not perfect although the hole location is a bit of a howler. I can see also that if you have carefully prepared tapped holes than getting any standard M5 fixing is going to be a bit challenging. Judging from the picture I would say that if you reduced a slotted or Pozi head to 5.60mm diameter it would do the job.

                      I have an expensive set of British made cast iron, machined all over (apart from the slots/holes) angle plates. A large proportion of the slots lengths are unusable because of the fillet between the internal faces. I cannot get to take a picture just now but have grabbed this picture off Google images that shows exactly (Well its 45 degree fillet on my plates but you get the idea).

                      I see the same sort of out of proportion features, like massively wide slots on many pieces of workshop tooling and workholding items like lathe faceplates and machine vises.

                      angle plate.jpg

                      Ian P

                      #617078
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133

                        If you don’t mind my mentioning this, Robin

                        That hole appears to be ‘wrong’ in more than one way

                        Aside from the position, it appears to be oval

                        Are they all similar, and similarly orientated, or has each been ‘dragged’ differently ?

                        … How did you decide which ‘centres’ to measure ?

                        .

                        689b3aef-4f7a-419b-8730-5b6c77fd69f5.jpeg

                        .

                        MichaelG.

                        #617082
                        Robin
                        Participant
                          @robin

                          The holes are round.

                          Viewed from below there is a strange slot next to each mounting hole, possibly a mould opening fix which displaced it.

                          I think I may have to make up some kind of counterbore to make way for a reduced bolt head. I have been playing with burrs in my Dremel but I am not very good at the arty farty, freehand stuff sad

                          #617085
                          Michael Gilligan
                          Participant
                            @michaelgilligan61133
                            Posted by Robin on 12/10/2022 23:33:38:

                            The holes are round.

                            .

                            Then count me “astonished’ by what I see in your photo

                            … I only had a small glass of Talisker

                            MichaelG.

                            #617091
                            Anonymous
                              Posted by Michael Gilligan on 12/10/2022 23:43:37:

                              Then count me “astonished’ by what I see in your photo

                              Me too – it certainly looks like it's been "drawn"
                              .

                              #617092
                              Hopper
                              Participant
                                @hopper

                                A 5mm hole is not meant for a 5mm bolt. It's a clearance hole. As Martin said above, 3mm screws with washers and nuts would do the job just fine in such a light-duty application. Or the electrician's favourite: zip ties.

                                There used to be BS standards and the like specifying the amount of clearance around bolt holes to allow for the hexagons plus spanners, but obviously a thing of the past.

                                #617105
                                Michael Gilligan
                                Participant
                                  @michaelgilligan61133
                                  Posted by Hopper on 13/10/2022 01:20:06:

                                  … As Martin said above, 3mm screws with washers and nuts would do …

                                  .

                                  Many a true word, said in jest

                                  MichaelG.

                                  #617109
                                  Bazyle
                                  Participant
                                    @bazyle

                                    So it is a design or manufacture flaw, but if we are going to moan about small errors why is this thread called 'draw angle' when that is not the issue?

                                    #617115
                                    Ian P
                                    Participant
                                      @ianp
                                      Posted by Bazyle on 13/10/2022 09:25:13:

                                      So it is a design or manufacture flaw, but if we are going to moan about small errors why is this thread called 'draw angle' when that is not the issue?

                                      +1

                                      Very true

                                      Ian P

                                      #617116
                                      Robin
                                      Participant
                                        @robin
                                        Posted by Bazyle on 13/10/2022 09:25:13:

                                        So it is a design or manufacture flaw, but if we are going to moan about small errors why is this thread called 'draw angle' when that is not the issue?

                                        Hi

                                        It is called draft angles because I thought that was the problem in the mould before I spotted the rectangular cut-out next to the 5mm bolt hole. Looks like a puller to me

                                        Ever since I discovered zero backlash screws, DRO readouts and amazingly cheap precision measuring tools I have delighted in drilling holes exactly where holes need to be. When I see 5mm holes like these I drill for 5mm bolts and it is wonderful when it all goes together like it never did before. This is what makes it fun for me smiley

                                        #617118
                                        John Doe 2
                                        Participant
                                          @johndoe2

                                          A hole too close for the bolt head: a school-boy error, which we all make from time to time !

                                          Use a side cutting tool bit* and 'slot' the holes diagonally out towards the corners, keeping the width of the slot the same as the diameter you require, but thus allowing room for the bolt head and a washer.

                                           

                                          (@MG: The picture of the bolt hole might look oval, but that is almost certainly owing to the distortion caused by the wide angle lens of the camera and the angle the shot was taken from.)

                                           

                                          *I don't know the correct term.

                                          Edited By John Doe 2 on 13/10/2022 10:14:43

                                          #617120
                                          Martin Kyte
                                          Participant
                                            @martinkyte99762
                                            Posted by Ian P on 12/10/2022 21:33:51:

                                            I think its a bit unfair to blame the Chinese for this! The HuanYang inverters are a low cost commodity item and not perfect although the hole location is a bit of a howler. I can see also that if you have carefully prepared tapped holes than getting any standard M5 fixing is going to be a bit challenging. Judging from the picture I would say that if you reduced a slotted or Pozi head to 5.60mm diameter it would do the job.

                                            I have an expensive set of British made cast iron, machined all over (apart from the slots/holes) angle plates. A large proportion of the slots lengths are unusable because of the fillet between the internal faces. I cannot get to take a picture just now but have grabbed this picture off Google images that shows exactly (Well its 45 degree fillet on my plates but you get the idea).

                                            I see the same sort of out of proportion features, like massively wide slots on many pieces of workshop tooling and workholding items like lathe faceplates and machine vises.

                                            angle plate.jpg

                                            Ian P

                                            Why would you use a fixing that would fill the slot? Smaller diameter bolts not only don’t wedge

                                            but allow for some sideways adjustment when setting up, turning up some hefty thick washers is the name

                                            of the game.

                                            regards Martin

                                            #617130
                                            Mike Poole
                                            Participant
                                              @mikepoole82104

                                              6de996da-1f73-43e5-a510-4eb262a8bcb0.jpeg
                                              I think the bolt on the top row second from left would be just what is needed for this job. I think the cap screw suggested above would be worth a try.

                                              Mike

                                              #617136
                                              Michael Gilligan
                                              Participant
                                                @michaelgilligan61133
                                                Posted by John Doe 2 on 13/10/2022 10:11:54:

                                                (@MG: The picture of the bolt hole might look oval, but that is almost certainly owing to the distortion caused by the wide angle lens of the camera and the angle the shot was taken from.)

                                                *I don't know the correct term.

                                                .

                                                possibly JD2 … but the general shape of the casting looks pretty convincing dont know

                                                MichaelG.

                                                #617155
                                                Ian P
                                                Participant
                                                  @ianp
                                                  Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/10/2022 12:19:19:

                                                  Posted by John Doe 2 on 13/10/2022 10:11:54:

                                                  (@MG: The picture of the bolt hole might look oval, but that is almost certainly owing to the distortion caused by the wide angle lens of the camera and the angle the shot was taken from.)

                                                  *I don't know the correct term.

                                                  .

                                                  possibly JD2 … but the general shape of the casting looks pretty convincing dont know

                                                  MichaelG.

                                                  But is it a casting? or just the corner of the plastic moulded VFD casing.

                                                  Ian P

                                                  #617156
                                                  Michael Gilligan
                                                  Participant
                                                    @michaelgilligan61133
                                                    Posted by Ian P on 13/10/2022 15:03:25:

                                                    Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/10/2022 12:19:19:

                                                    Posted by John Doe 2 on 13/10/2022 10:11:54:

                                                    (@MG: The picture of the bolt hole might look oval, but that is almost certainly owing to the distortion caused by the wide angle lens of the camera and the angle the shot was taken from.)

                                                    *I don't know the correct term.

                                                    .

                                                    possibly JD2 … but the general shape of the casting looks pretty convincing dont know

                                                    MichaelG.

                                                    But is it a casting? or just the corner of the plastic moulded VFD casing.

                                                    Ian P

                                                    .

                                                    Presumably the latter, Ian

                                                    I was concentrating on the geometry and probably used the wrong term.

                                                    [ shame on me ]

                                                    MichaelG.

                                                    #617157
                                                    Ian P
                                                    Participant
                                                      @ianp
                                                      Posted by Martin Kyte on 13/10/2022 10:27:02:

                                                      Posted by Ian P on 12/10/2022 21:33:51:

                                                      I think its a bit unfair to blame the Chinese for this!

                                                      Why would you use a fixing that would fill the slot? Smaller diameter bolts not only don’t wedge

                                                      but allow for some sideways adjustment when setting up, turning up some hefty thick washers is the name

                                                      of the game.

                                                      regards Martin

                                                      I dont think I would ever use a bolt that fits the slot, all the work fixings I use on the mill is far smaller than the slot width. I use mainly M6 to M8 to the odd M12 (and imperial equivalents). I have just measured the lot width on my set of four Eclipse 302 angle plates (picture below) and its 17mm at the face, narrowing to about 15.5mm mid thickness.

                                                      Setting up jobs can be quite fiddly, if I use M8 or M10 bolts the washers have to be specials to span the 17mm slot and the bolts then can be a long way from the end of the slot (so I have flats on the washers). As manufactured the slots do not suit any standard bolts unless one sacrifices some of the slot length.

                                                      eclipse 302 angle plate.jpg

                                                      Ian P

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