The moving slide having slipped, split

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The moving slide having slipped, split

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  • #605128
    Iain Downs
    Participant
      @iaindowns78295

      The obscure title relates to a sliding microscope mount which I had just finished – or so I thought.

      microscope stand.jpg

      The chunk thing on the right is a cheap (ish) but surprisingly good trinocular microsocope. the basic idea is that I can move it in and out of my watch-repair (well so far, watch destruction) box as I need it.

      The block in the middle at the top of the bar allows for sliding the scope in and out (left and right), rotate the whole thing around the vertical and move it up and down to get the microscope in focus range. there's a clamp underneath to se the height.

      Smugly, I took this picture and then decided to take the microscope assembly off and fit the thrust bearing that is intended to reduce wear….

      The result was not all I'd hoped.

      microscope stand slider.jpg

      Sadly, the above picture is not prior to assembly, but after self-disassembly.

      I didn't have any stock big enough for what I suppose is the central bearing, So I glued (loctite 638) 3 bits of aluminium bar I did have as you can see above then bored (the two horizontal holes on the mill and the cross hole on the lathe). The horizontal holes are 28mm with 25mm internal bore slide bearings inside (2 each tube). The cross hole 40mm to fit a 40mm silver steel bar I had lying around.

      The obvious fix is to glue it back together.

      However, one of the issues I had with this is that the stainless steel tube is not exactly precision ground. It's neither particularly straight nor particularly regular in diameter (variation of 2 -3 thou and generally oversized) along the individual 500mm lengths.

      It took several goes on the lathe with some emery to get the assembly close to running smoothly. Hampered by the tubes being longer than my lathe bed.

      So my first worry is that if I don't get it perfectly aligned when I refabricated it, then the moderate stickiness at some points in the travel will become complete blockers.

      The cross hole is arguably worse. The tolerance here is less important, but there is clearly insufficient meat for the glue (each land is about 4 – 5 mm wide I think). I would plan to put a bolt through the centre between the horizontal bores, but harder to see how to do it for the cross bore.

      Finally, I was clearly not paying attention to tolerances which I designed this. I assumed that a 25mm tube was, in fact, 25mm and straight. Clearly not, so I wonder if I should re-build the slider unit. Buy a big piece of ally (or steel) Forget the bearings and bore the horizontal holes a with a bit of windage so the steel tubes are a (very) free running fit.

      MY concern here is that metal on metal isn't ideal (say stainless on aluminium or steel), but on the other hand, the slides will likely be used a few times a day and I expect would see my days out without getting to the point.

      Any advice or suggestions would be most welcome!

      Iain

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      #36902
      Iain Downs
      Participant
        @iaindowns78295

        Trying to be clever, but I’m not

        #605143
        Nigel Graham 2
        Participant
          @nigelgraham2

          If you make the "windage" too breezy you introduce new problems including the risk of breaking the clamp again in forcing it to contact the bar.

          Metal on a different metal is no problem for something like this. As you say, it's not in constant motion; nor is it carrying a massive load. I appreciate you won't want oil and the like around your watch-working area, but you could try lubricating it with furniture-polish, PTFE spray or a very thin smear of silicone grease.

          A better type of clamp though is the one often used on bench-drills, consisting of two round bars working in a cross-hole offset from the main bore, and with a thread in one to take a bolt running clear through from the other. The bars have scalloped ends that on tightening, snuggle round part of the circumference of the bar to be clamped, then grip it. The bars are faced short so they meet the column, not each other. The "head" of the bolt is typically a short operating handle.

          That would also facilitate the bearing surfaces themselves being perhaps Nylon or PTFE.

          #605152
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133

            It may be a bit late to mention this, Iain … but

            As you have sensibly chosen to use a double rail; other bearing arrangements could be used

            Consider the possibility of a pair of suitable plastic rods, acting as a vee-block, at top and bottom [i.e. four rods in total]

            MichaelG.

            #605158
            Neil A
            Participant
              @neila

              I don't think that Loctite 638 is a suitable adhesive for flat surfaces, it is really intended for bonding cylindrical parts. Perhaps an alternative adhesive such as Araldite or maybe Superglue would be better, although your jointing faces for the upper part seem quite narrow.

              I think that you will have a better chance of holding the unit together if you are able to use some small fasteners between the parts. I was thinking in the order of say three M3 each side centred quite close to the 25mm bore for the upper part and perhaps two m6 for the two lower pieces. Remember that a single 8.8 M6 fastener can give you about 1 ton clamping force.

              Always problems to solve!

              Neil

              #605203
              Iain Downs
              Participant
                @iaindowns78295

                Hi, Nigel. At the moment, I don't see a need to clamp the system in either a rotational or in out sense. There is enough inertia (and resistance) in the system that it's actually quite stable. Before the damn thing collapsed I was able to actually use the microscope and zoom and focus worked well, even with no locking.

                The original stand has a simple vertical bar on a base and in that is a circular copper band recessed into the bore. A thumbscrew bears on that allowing the mechanism to be clamped to the bar but without marking the bar.

                Hi, Michael. I'm not sure I get what you're saying about the plastic bars and v-block. I think you mean something like this, but I'm not clear.

                rails.jpg

                Neil – at the moment I'm thinking of one or 2 m26r threaded rods through the gap between the horizontal bores possibly with some loctite, though I'm not sure if I would have the time to position things and may end up glueing any positioning such as the tubes – relatively easy .

                For the cross hole, I thought something like this

                slider brace.jpg

                Essentially a rail bolted to the side to take some 6mm (or 5 or 4, not sure) bolts through into the meat of the bearing thing.

                I will try this first as it's easier, quicker and cheaper than making a new system, and if that fails I will have a rethink.

                A single block of aluminium – or steel – to machine this out of is rather expensive (if I can find one). I've had another thought which would involved making three cylindrical bearings of of material I do have and then bolting them together in some Heath Robinson way I haven't quite worked out yet…

                Thanks for all the input!

                Iain

                #605246
                Michael Gilligan
                Participant
                  @michaelgilligan61133
                  Posted by Iain Downs on 10/07/2022 09:23:19:

                  Hi, Michael. I'm not sure I get what you're saying about the plastic bars and v-block. I think you mean something like this, but I'm not clear.

                  rails.jpg

                  .

                  Spot-on Iain yes

                  Except, of course, that I meant two rods at the top of your upper bar … and two rods at the bottom of your lower bar.

                  MichaelG.

                  Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/07/2022 15:00:32

                  #605960
                  Iain Downs
                  Participant
                    @iaindowns78295

                    Thanks for all the advice.

                    I attempted to re-glue (and bolt) the original, but the loctite (superglue) set almost immediately on contact and before I'd got the bits in place, so the join was a fraction off and the tubes no longer went through. I did think about trying again, but there's this saying about flogging a dead horse.

                    So I made another.

                    new slider.jpg

                    This is 2 pieces rather than 3 – the horizontal rail support is no longer split, though there is less meat around the tube. But also not much load.

                    It all seems to work OK. I expect I will rotate it (on the largish thrust bearing, it's very smooth) more than slide as the sliding is a bit juddery. I've got some PTFE spray and will see if that helps.

                    I'm currently contemplating if I should paint this bearing (black) like the others. The paint hasn't taken that well and I am now well bored with this project. I probably will though.

                    Thanks again!

                    Iain

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