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  • #594480
    J Hancock
    Participant
      @jhancock95746

      Who remembers how to find the square root of a number with a tape measure, piece of string and a pencil. ?

      For example 6.

      Draw a line 6 units long, mark , add one unit of length .

      Now draw a semi-circle radius 3.5 units.

      Draw vertical line up from the 6 mark, measure length where it crosses circle.

      Answer 2.44948 units long.

      Might come in handy to know one day.

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      #36825
      J Hancock
      Participant
        @jhancock95746
        #594482
        Hopper
        Participant
          @hopper

          laugh Some day when my smart phone can't access a calculator. And someday when I have a tape measure that reads to 5 decimal places!

          Neat trick though. yes

          Before calculators we used sly drools at school and I am sure they could do this calculation but I couldn't work those things out back then, let alone remember if they could even do it today.

          Edited By Hopper on 15/04/2022 10:01:56

          #594484
          Anonymous

            Never heard of the method. I was taught how to use a slide rule in the third year at secondary school, after which they were never mentioned again. I still have my slide rule and know how to use it. There is an x^2 scale so square roots are direct reading.

            Andrew

            #594485
            JasonB
            Moderator
              @jasonb

              Though if you use 1m as your unit on the tape measure then should not be too hard to split the 1mm divisions and get 2449.5mm which would equate to 2.4495units

              But you would need a sharp pencil and also a pin for the other end of the stringwink

              Edited By JasonB on 15/04/2022 10:12:45

              #594488
              Paul Lousick
              Participant
                @paullousick59116

                Still have my slide rule and does not need batteries.

                slide rule.jpg

                #594491
                not done it yet
                Participant
                  @notdoneityet

                  Who remembers how to find the square root of a number with a tape measure, piece of string and a pencil. ?

                  I most certainly have never known of that method.

                  But, there again, I have never seen a tape measure that would provide a value for the square root of six to that may significant figures ( 2.44948).🙂

                  #594492
                  Hopper
                  Participant
                    @hopper
                    Posted by Andrew Johnston on 15/04/2022 10:10:41:

                    Never heard of the method. I was taught how to use a slide rule in the third year at secondary school, after which they were never mentioned again. I still have my slide rule and know how to use it. There is an x^2 scale so square roots are direct reading.

                    Andrew

                    Yes I think we moved on to calculators in fourth year at secondary school. They were a fairly new thing then and regarded by teachers with great suspicion, and were not let loose among the lower years lest they be corrupted by them.

                    #594494
                    Peter G. Shaw
                    Participant
                      @peterg-shaw75338

                      I was taught at secondary school to use 4-figure logs to base 10 which I found quite fascinating. I was never taught to use anti-logs, so worked it out for myself, then asked the maths teacher who effectively said,if it works for you, do it.

                      Slide rules, of which I still have three, were the province of Technical College maths. All three have the A, B, C & D scales which make square roots dead easy, but only the 5" Helix A50S has the K scale for cubes & cube roots. Simple means, simple devices, relatively coarse in precision, yet sufficiently good enough for most, if not all, practical purposes. The only problems are the requirement to be able to work out the multiples of 10 required (sorry, forgotten the correct term here), and the difficulty in learning how to use them.

                      As far as square roots are concerned, there is a method, which I've now forgotten, whereby they could be calculated using the old, original 4 function plus K constant calculator. I seem to think that the method could be done longhand. Plus, I have a recollection that an expansion to the key sequencing could be used to produce cube roots.

                      Ah, happy memories.

                      Peter G. Shaw

                      #594496
                      Circlip
                      Participant
                        @circlip

                        Still got my 'Napierian and other Log tables for skools', invaluable, Batteries NEVER run out.

                        Regards Ian.

                        Edited By Circlip on 15/04/2022 11:02:31

                        #594500
                        Gary Wooding
                        Participant
                          @garywooding25363

                          In addition to using a tape measure, string and pencil to get square root 6, who can remember how to divide a line into any number of equal parts using just a straightedge and pencil?

                          #594503
                          SillyOldDuffer
                          Moderator
                            @sillyoldduffer
                            Posted by J Hancock on 15/04/2022 09:53:39:

                            For example 6.

                            Draw a line 6 units long, mark , add one unit of length .

                            Now draw a semi-circle radius 3.5 units.

                            Draw vertical line up from the 6 mark, measure length where it crosses circle.

                            Answer 2.44948 units long.

                            Help! I must be doing it wrong.

                            squarerootmethodtape.jpg

                            Baseline 6 units in white, 1 unit extension in red, radius 3.5 circle in blue, wrong answer in yellow = 3.61

                            ?

                            Dave

                            #594505
                            AdrianR
                            Participant
                              @adrianr18614

                              Help! I must be doing it wrong.

                              Dave,

                              Try drawing a circle at the centre of the line

                              #594508
                              Bazyle
                              Participant
                                @bazyle

                                Anyone remember the 'Curta' hand held mechanical calculator? My physics master had one then got an early HP calculator about 1970.

                                Calculators can be too precise though. I mentioned on here a few years ago how some people had been speculating on how a device from the '20s had been designed as a particular dimension 'needed' to be accurate to a few tenths to avoid accumulated errors. Spreadsheet calculations which involved a cosine did not seem to work out. However when the cosine was reduced to the less accurate value from 4 figure tables as would have been used in 1920 the calculations 'rounded out' nicely.

                                edit – just checked there is a 3D print design for the Curta

                                Edited By Bazyle on 15/04/2022 11:42:31

                                #594510
                                AdrianR
                                Participant
                                  @adrianr18614

                                  I was educated after slide rules and before calculators so it was all meant to be done the hard way. I was taught about log tables and used those, plus my brother being that much older was taught and had a slide rule. He didn't need it so it became mine and I found out it was not against the rules to use one. I was the only one to use a slide rule in my entire year.

                                  I can still remember buying my first calculator at Uni, still have it too.

                                   

                                  I have this in my watch list as a thing to do some day https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBdVVFqTrUU

                                  Edited By AdrianR on 15/04/2022 11:41:49

                                  #594511
                                  Philip Rowe
                                  Participant
                                    @philiprowe13116

                                    I recall when Sinclair brought out his first calculator in the early seventies it was around £60 – £70 if my memory is correct. Browsing the stationery alise in a local supermarket the other day l spotted a perfectly respectable scientific calculator for less than £4! Phil

                                    #594513
                                    duncan webster 1
                                    Participant
                                      @duncanwebster1

                                      SOD needs to move his circle 3.5 units to the right. It works because the vertical is then sqrt(3.5^2 – 2.5^2) from pythagorus. Using the difference of 2 squares, 3.5^2-2.5^2 =(3. 5+2.5)*(3.5-2.5),which is 6

                                      I'm not sure how you can be "after slide rules". I went from log tables to slide rules to calculators, missed out on those mechanical things where you wound a handle till it went 'ping', but there was one in the first DO I worked in, and it was reputed that one of the old guys knew how to work it. To use the first electronic one you had to beg the chief engineer for a borrow, and sign for it. It was the size of a decent book.

                                      #594517
                                      Peter G. Shaw
                                      Participant
                                        @peterg-shaw75338

                                        Philip,

                                        I think that Sinclair's first calculator was the Science of Cambridge retailing at £39-95. When it came out, Practical Electronics was running a series on building your own calculator for £70-£80. PE admitted they could no longer compete, but they were going to complete the series for information whilst accepting that no-one would be building it.

                                        Gary,

                                        That's easy: draw your base line, length immaterial. Erect a vertical from one end, then using a measuring device, tape measure, rule etc, draw an angled line from the other end point such that the point where the angled line crossed the vertical line was also the number of divisions required, eg, for say, 6 divisions, use 6 inches, or andeed any multiple of 6. Now drop verticals from the angled line at the appropriate points down to the base line, eg 1, 2, …5, 6. Ergo, the base line is nicely divided. Similar triangles in geometry I believe?

                                        Cheers

                                        Peter G. Shaw

                                        #594518
                                        Anthony Knights
                                        Participant
                                          @anthonyknights16741

                                          There is an arithmetic method of finding a square root using something resembling long division, but having never used it in nearly 70 years, I can't remember how it works. If I need a square root these days (not very often) I use a calculator, although I still have a couple of slide rules and some log tables stuck in a drawer somewhere.

                                          #594519
                                          Hopper
                                          Participant
                                            @hopper

                                            I remember in the late 1960s looking in the window of the hobby shop at a DIY kit to make your own "calculator". It was a big flat box about like two shoe boxes, with two big black knobs and a meter like an analog volt meter on the top. The two knobs had long pointers on them and were surrounded by rows of numbers, and the meter had rows of numbers on it.

                                            Don't know quite how it worked but probably two potentiometers and a volt meter with some kind of simple circuit to give an answer you read off the corresponding range on the meter. Must have had some kind of switches to select add, subtract, multiply, divide etc. Presumeably you chose the mode, set your first number on dial one, second number on dial two and hey presto by magic the needle on the meter indicated the answer.

                                            I remember marvelling at it and wishing I could have one for doing my arithmetic homework. Seems laughably primitive today. I can't for the life of me remember the brand name or details of it, despite having lusted after one for several years.

                                            #594520
                                            JA
                                            Participant
                                              @ja

                                              I have recently rediscovered my slide rule and started using it. If you only need an accuracy of three significant figures it is far quicker and less tiring on my artheritic fingers than a calculator.

                                              As a student, or school kid, if you could not afford a slide rule there were always log tables. I remember a class at tech splitting in two and having a race between slide rules and log tables.

                                              I remember being shown how to calculate a square root at school which was far more complex than using logs. Using square root tables was even easier.

                                              JA

                                              #594521
                                              Hopper
                                              Participant
                                                @hopper

                                                The calculator kit I remember may have been something like this. "As accurate as a slide rule!!"

                                                Those were simpler times.

                                                science+fair+electronic+computer+kit+-+stempunk.jpg

                                                #594523
                                                SillyOldDuffer
                                                Moderator
                                                  @sillyoldduffer
                                                  Posted by duncan webster on 15/04/2022 11:53:43:

                                                  SOD needs to move his circle 3.5 units to the right. It works because the vertical is then sqrt(3.5^2 – 2.5^2) from pythagorus. Using the difference of 2 squares, 3.5^2-2.5^2 =(3. 5+2.5)*(3.5-2.5),which is 6

                                                  Thanks Duncan. Much closer, but still not right, 2.4236 instead of 2.4494

                                                  squareroottape2.jpg

                                                  After a strong coffee I shall tackle Pythagoras!

                                                  Just in case anyone needs more accuracy the square root of 6 to 1000 places of decimals is:

                                                  2.449489742783178098197284074705891391965947480656670128432692567250
                                                  96037745731502653985943310464023481859460122661418912485886545983775
                                                  73416257839512372785528289127475276765712476301052709117702234813106
                                                  78986690853632443352545604033808808939374585567846574724361304144270
                                                  27021617420183830008158980783801308970072869399363083715809440080044
                                                  37386875491645146539391450120447264481333162935109447418135132854950
                                                  44466171726631425497648318124504011566045364590093435861679319836656
                                                  66266909131906535863766105258156179366236179110294672088354575512883
                                                  55298983241005586902050064154661241173533994104310579928984673395325
                                                  52787360418296551718303910367800383623166297323302829049773910474263
                                                  60070512637697546888677006409929559257173284645028880915144257463026
                                                  02952963237075525034227559915454262812980030646720799424253022878426
                                                  20534067947860046596939979935597540616713586546534562482082562768863
                                                  69280941306372433508864801572484633723244737954548814438479336370091
                                                  97410147785232875591063159846078310367009535324726

                                                  Put that in your slide rule and smoke it!

                                                  smiley

                                                  Dave

                                                  #594524
                                                  Calum
                                                  Participant
                                                    @calumgalleitch87969

                                                    For the benefit of anyone as confused as I was!

                                                    screenshot from 2022-04-15 13-16-09.jpg

                                                    #594530
                                                    duncan webster 1
                                                    Participant
                                                      @duncanwebster1

                                                      Either SOD has done it wrong, or QCad isn't as good as it thinks it is

                                                      Why is putting images in here such a faff!

                                                      square.jpg

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