Mankind occupies a strange place in the ecosystem !

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Mankind occupies a strange place in the ecosystem !

This topic has 16 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 31 March 2022 at 21:17 by Michael Gilligan.

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30 March 2022 at 09:18 #592016
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
… as this story, from the Smithsonian, nicely demonstrates : **LINK**

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/scientists-are-making-cochineal-a-red-dye-from-bugs-in-the-lab-180979828/

Consider the layers of self-interest that have driven this endeavour

MichaelG.
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30 March 2022 at 09:18 #36809
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
30 March 2022 at 09:58 #592021
Mick B1
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@mickb1
It's rather long.

I didn't find the punchline.
30 March 2022 at 10:49 #592025
KWIL
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@kwil
I found the Genome Study work, refered to on the same link far more interesting
30 March 2022 at 11:27 #592030
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
Oh well

MichaelG.
30 March 2022 at 12:07 #592037
Perko7
Participant
@perko7
Intriguing to think that people who may balk at the use of natural dye extracted from dead bugs could be happy to use synthetic dye extracted from living genetically modified microbes. I know which one I would prefer.
30 March 2022 at 12:23 #592042
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Thanks, Perko … we’re on the same page

Also strange to think how much effort has been expended over the centuries, catering to various whims.

MichaelG
30 March 2022 at 12:36 #592046
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
And once upon a time, we were part of the natural food chain

Once dead and buried, we probably are, but in different position in the hierarchy!

Howard
30 March 2022 at 12:57 #592052
Nigel Graham 2
Participant
@nigelgraham2
Perhaps, like Procedures, Put in our Place at last?

And even then, only if by woodland or sea burial.

What would be more to the point is not synthesising dyes per se, but finding sensible, sustainable alternatives generally to petroleum and coal derivatives once either depletion or 'Er from Sweden has made them no longer available. So perhaps microbial cochineal is a start in the right direction.
30 March 2022 at 13:45 #592061
Bill Phinn
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@billphinn90025
My reading of the article tells me the chief reason for the engineered version is not vegan sensibilities but rising prices of the natural product and a supply that cannot keep up with demand.
30 March 2022 at 14:11 #592063
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Probably true, Bill … Vegan sensibilities make a good cover story

What intrigued me was that Mankind has [for the sake of an attractive, but otherwise generally useless colouring]:
- Harvested and processed countless numbers of beetles
- Tried to use Aniline dyes as a substitute
- … with the consequent effect on health
- Is now genetically modifying another life-form
- … with who knows what what consequences ?
- Persisted in “needing” this pretty colour to enhance appearance.
- … despite having more urgent matters to attend-to.
Gratuitous, or what ?

MichaelG.
30 March 2022 at 14:59 #592066
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
On holiday in Lanzarote I found that one of the local products is cochineal, as it is pretty much a desert landscape there are limited opportunities for farming and cochineal production is probably a reasonable living. I hope the engineered product doesn’t put them out of business.

Mike
30 March 2022 at 17:53 #592091
SillyOldDuffer
Moderator
@sillyoldduffer
In defence of artificial dyes, biologic microscopists noticed they differentially penetrated the various parts of cells structures, leading to medical advances based on understanding cells. Even more usefully, the effect was applied to drugs, allowing them to be aimed at particular organisms and cancers, whilst providing the foundations of modern pharmaceuticals.

Of course humanity having drugs that actually work, rather than granny nostrums, means more of us survive to want lots more pretty colours…
30 March 2022 at 18:44 #592097
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Mike Poole on 30/03/2022 14:59:01:

[…]

… cochineal production is probably a reasonable living. I hope the engineered product doesn’t put them out of business.

.

that’s one of several thoughts that crossed my mind this morning, Mike

MichaelG.
30 March 2022 at 20:34 #592106
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 30/03/2022 17:53:41:

In defence of artificial dyes, biologic microscopists noticed …

.

But … In the case for the prosecution: I know, from personal experience, that ‘Sunset Yellow’ is a powerful allergen … to the extent that I cannot tolerate its inclusion as a colouring in tablets and capsules: My prescribed medications must be either plain white, or coloured with Iron Oxide.

MichaelG.
31 March 2022 at 12:26 #592208
Tim Stevens
Participant
@timstevens64731
Well, at least you have a range of colours available. Rouge is red, magnetite is black, so a mix can supply browns. And if you allow a bit of harmless carbon-dioxide into the mix, the whole range of ochres.

cheers, Tim
31 March 2022 at 21:17 #592277
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Tim Stevens on 31/03/2022 12:26:53:

Well, at least you have a range of colours available. Rouge is red, magnetite is black, so a mix can supply browns. And if you allow a bit of harmless carbon-dioxide into the mix, the whole range of ochres.

Fair comment, Tim … and surely that is all the more reason to not put known allergens into medicines !

Two particularly ludicrous instances were:
- Dispersible Aspirin tablets, coloured with ‘Sunset Yellow’
- Ramipril capsules which were coloured with “Yellow Iron Oxide” [sic] which, on further investigation, turns-out to be the descriptive name of a particular Aniline dye !
MichaelG.

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Edited By Michael Gilligan on 31/03/2022 21:31:43
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