Maths problem just for fun

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Maths problem just for fun

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  • #575547
    Buffer
    Participant
      @buffer

      I found this in a book yesterday and to be honest I can't work it out. I know the answer as I have a good CAD program. But what about you, can you do it the old fashioned way?

      How high above the surface of the part does the ball protrude?

      20211216_112250.jpg

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      #36664
      Buffer
      Participant
        @buffer

        Get that old nut of yours warmed up with this one.

        #575550
        RobCox
        Participant
          @robcox

          99.4 thou if my maths is correct.

          If the slot width is 2W and the ball diameter = 2R and the angle of the slot sides to the vertical = A:

          The ball contacts the sides a height of R.sinA below the ball centre.

          The distance across the slot at the contact points is 2R.cosA, so the height below the top of the slot is

          (W-R.cosA) / tanA, giving the height of the top of the ball above the top of the slot as

          H = R + R.sinA – (W-R.cosA) / tanA

          For R = 0.5, W = 0.625 and A = 90-75 = 15, that gives the answer above.

          Shoot me down if I'm wrong.

          Rob

          #575551
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            0.414"

            My method

            maths.jpg

            1. Work out how far below ctr of ball it makes contact 0.129 and also the horizontal distance 0.966

            2. Work out how far down the taper the 0.966 width is 0.215

            3 height is the 0.129 plus radius of 0.500 less the 0.215.

            Answer or at least my answer is 0.414

            Edited By JasonB on 16/12/2021 12:14:16

            #575553
            RobCox
            Participant
              @robcox

              My answer is clearly wrong, because half of 1.125 is not 0.625embarrassed

              Edited By RobCox on 16/12/2021 12:20:56

              #575554
              JasonB
              Moderator
                @jasonb

                So is mine now I have done it in CAD, method was right but I got the distance down that the points of contact are wrong as I used TAN not SIN, won't post the right answer so others can have a go

                Edited By JasonB on 16/12/2021 12:28:52

                #575556
                RobCox
                Participant
                  @robcox

                  Jason, I agree with your method, but I get the height of the contact below the top (x in your diagram) to be 0.0795/tan15 = 0.2968, which gives me a revised answer of 0.3326.

                  Thank goodness I haven't got to worry about maths exams any more!

                  #575559
                  JasonB
                  Moderator
                    @jasonb

                    That's it.

                    Nextdevil

                    #575561
                    not done it yet
                    Participant
                      @notdoneityet

                      Nothing other than a cursory glance, but I think it needs a couple of simultaneous equations to sort out the contact point. Might look at it later…

                      #575562
                      Martin Connelly
                      Participant
                        @martinconnelly55370

                        This is my take on the solution. It requires solving the equation to find angle alpha using trig identities which I did not include on the page as it is messy and seems a bit unnecessary to show here. The point is it gets the same result a different way from those above.

                        p1160224 (2).jpg

                        Martin C

                        #575574
                        Jon Lawes
                        Participant
                          @jonlawes51698

                          I can't help but feel inferior to the brains knocking around on this forum. I'd almost certainly have had to google the technique; I am for some reason unable to retain mathematics techniques and such.

                          Well done to the examiner and to those who attempted an answer!

                          #575586
                          Buffer
                          Participant
                            @buffer

                            Well as Jason asked for it, here it is. I take no credit for this and I can't do it without CAD.

                            If the ladder just touches the cube how far up the wall does the ladder touch the wall? Good luck you'll need it.

                            20211216_165257.jpg

                            #575594
                            Brian Wood
                            Participant
                              @brianwood45127

                              I cheated and solved it by construction!

                              The answer there is 9.625 feet

                              Brian

                              #575596
                              JA
                              Participant
                                @ja

                                Agreed.

                                Wedge sum

                                I have met Buffer's problem before and it was deemed un-solvable. I have just written the equations down: three simulanteous quadratics. My evening meal calls. I am sure someone will solve it by the time I next look at the website.

                                JA

                                #575597
                                Bob Mc
                                Participant
                                  @bobmc91481

                                  Ladder box wall problem…

                                  It can be done, I spent many a happy hour trying to solve this one some years ago, and although I didn't find a solution myself the problem can be solved, here is one solution.

                                  **LINK**

                                  #575599
                                  Pete Rimmer
                                  Participant
                                    @peterimmer30576

                                    I coudn't do the box-and-ladder one but for sure it has two possible solutions. Only the visual representation (and the fact that no-one would use such a low-angle ladder) suggests that the base of the triangle is less than the height. Mathematically there are two values of X where the line meets the cube.

                                    #575604
                                    JA
                                    Participant
                                      @ja

                                      I have just looked at the link. It is the same two solutions turned through ninety degrees.

                                      It would be interesting see if complex numbers would make the solving easier. Too old for that now.

                                      JA

                                      #575609
                                      DMB
                                      Participant
                                        @dmb

                                        With the first diagram, I didn't actually try maths but thought "ball-park" – the height of a vertical radius above the flat top is approximately 2/3 of the total radius. Total radius is 1/2", (16/32) so 2/3 is about 10, or 5/16, so it seems my guess was quite close!

                                        #575617
                                        pgk pgk
                                        Participant
                                          @pgkpgk17461

                                          Surely the first problem has a simple approach.
                                          A line drawn vertically up from the ball/wall contact point meets a line extended from the block surface to give an 'inverted' triangle. Base of that is 1/2 (width of VGroove minus DiameterBall). Tan(15deg) then gives the inverted height to subtract from ball radius?

                                          The second problem I’m struggling with. I think the solution rests somewhere in the fact that the hypotenuse of the triangle above the cube is also X such that there are simultaneous equations with Cos(Theta)=x/10=(x-2)/x. Also Tan(Theta)=(x-2)/2 and Sin(Theta)=2/X. I guess one needs to be familiar with the Trig reciprocals, which gets beyond the math I learned.?

                                          pgk

                                          #575623
                                          duncan webster 1
                                          Participant
                                            @duncanwebster1

                                            My answer to problem 2 is 9.677 ft, but I had to use a Bisection routine to get to it, otherwise I think you have to solve a 4th power equation.

                                            I've checked my answer on CAD

                                            #575625
                                            RobCox
                                            Participant
                                              @robcox

                                              I could try and pretend I'm really whizzy with maths by giving a solution, but I'm not, so I'll instead refer you to a youtube channel I've watched from time to time. The channel creator's name is Presh Talwalker and he solves this exact problem in his video " the ladder and box problem – a classic problem".

                                              Me, I just got bogged down in quadratic equations that looked like they might turn into quartics…

                                              #575636
                                              Alan Charleston
                                              Participant
                                                @alancharleston78882

                                                Hi,

                                                I developed a proof for how to work this out but unfortunately it's too big to fit in the margin.

                                                Regards,

                                                Alan C.

                                                #575638
                                                derek hall 1
                                                Participant
                                                  @derekhall1

                                                  I solved both problems in a matter of minutes. I was going to show you all

                                                  I wrote the solutions down on a piece of paper

                                                  But the dog ate it or I left it on the bus ….sorry sir

                                                  Happy Xmas all

                                                  Derek

                                                  #575643
                                                  Bob Mc
                                                  Participant
                                                    @bobmc91481

                                                    This is a good one if you have not seen it before…the Resistor Cube problem ..

                                                    don't cheat…have a go at it first, the solution/s are lower on page.

                                                    link

                                                    **LINK**

                                                    #575653
                                                    JA
                                                    Participant
                                                      @ja

                                                      My solution to the ladder problem:ladder 1ladder 2

                                                      Enough said.

                                                      JA

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