Nothing we do will stop the poles melting, it's been going on for over 10,000 years

less environmental pollution would be nice, but it won't change anything

We're in the same boat as the cavemen were, we are in the hands of the gods

Intruiging to watch a belief system evolve from scratch though, like communism or fascism, the erosion of freedoms, the suppression of debate, the avoidance of reality

relatively low level stuff compared with other cults of course, but interesting nonetheless

It appears that the experts are saying that the Earths Temperature about 40,000,000 years ago was a lot lower than today, I have a question for those that are involved, how did they know the temperature? did they have THERMOMETERS in those days?

oxygen isotope ratios in the tests of microfossils are used as a proxy for ancient temperatures. Water with O16 is preferntially evaporated over water with O18. The higher the water temperature the higher the ratio of O18 to 16 in the tests. The higher the temperature the greater the rate of evaporation. Calibration of the relationship uses corals.

Why does no one ever mention that in many parts of the world it is the ground that is sinking not sea level rising, coral atolls being a classic example, the SE of England another.

Edited By Mr C on 10/11/2021 18:23:22

Malthus said much the same in 1798. Hasn't happened on a global scale. Most developed countries have stable or even declining populations. The rate of population growth is declining.

We know there's a problem – we've known it since about the 1950s – but we don't know the balance between the costs and practicalities for different groups of humans of the myriad of labyrinthine answers proposed by experts whose qualifications, prejudices, political, career and financial interests most of us aren't in a position objectively to examine.

Despite the vast mass of rhetoric, and the inarticulate and unhelpful rage of some activists, the fact is that humanity will have to muddle through somehow.

Or not.

Overpopulation

That's the real challenge for the next 100+ years

I hope reincarnation doesn't exist…

Nigel

I see that you like others believe that things like calculation as you say give us the answers, did experts know how to calculate prior to the invention of the computer, as the computer is basically an adding machine it can only give results to what is entered whether that is the truth or what people think.

Ady – I agree, though it's not our only woe. The trouble is that it is the most sensitive woe of the lot, and would I think prove the hardest to solve.

Simon – I'm concerned less by the hypocracy though as you say it's certaily there, than by the level of technical ignorance and knee-jerkery when it comes to trying to find realistic solutions by thinking beyond the immediately obvious. As for China… there has been plenty of mention of China but the world as a whole probably has little more influence over that country than you and I do.

Richard – I don't know the point you are trying to make, especially on a forum so dedicated to a discipline based on science and mathematics accumulating from well before electronic computers. Besides, you can have the most sophisticated computer in the world, even able to run Microsoft 13, but it will not perform complex mathematics if its programmer does not understand those mathematics even before turning them into " computerese " .

Roy – I reckon your mother's uncle had a point even if his knowledge was actually far thinner than he imagined. What we are seeing though is the result of humanity believing for some 200 years that it could "tame Nature" – a common phrase even as recently as the 1960s, as I recall.

Australia's been in the news because it's the largest consumer of coal per head in the world and they talked nonsense at COP26. Not burned locally, most of it is exported to China, Japan, India, South Korea and Taiwan.

Australia is blessed with huge coal-fields. They produce something over 500,000,000 tons of coal each year, with production growing at about 2% per year despite concern about Global Warming.

As a country, Australia puts making money from selling coal above all objections. Ironic because Australia is geographically badly placed in terms of climate change and are already seeing bouts of unusually severe hot weather and protracted droughts. I predict in twenty years time Australians will vilify the current leadership's short-term decision making.

Population is something of a red-herring because the poor contribute relatively little to Climate Change. To make a difference, it's the 10% of humanity who are consuming 90% of the worlds resources who need to change their ways: rich folk in the developed world. Unfortunately, we are all greedy hypocrites and it's amazing hard to give up wealth and power. Like a monkey stuck with his hand in the Biscuit Jar, we can't let go…

Dave