15-day Skeleton Timepiece

Advert

15-day Skeleton Timepiece

Home Forums Clocks and Scientific Instruments 15-day Skeleton Timepiece

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 41 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #82777
    Russell Eberhardt
    Participant
      @russelleberhardt48058
      After several years of model engineering and as my grandfather, great grandfather, and great great grandfather were all watch and clock makers I have decided to make my own clock.
       
      I have chosen John Parslow’s skeleton clock as it is described as being suitable for beginners to clockmaking and looks nice.
       
      Having started it I have found that he assumes rather a lot of clockmaking knowledge so have been reading up on techniques and nomenclature. I have also found quite a few errors in the articles (some, but not all, of which were corrected in later articles) so I will note them here in case it helps anyone else:
       
      1. The material list omits the brass for the minute wheel. This should be 1.5 in Dia. x 3/32.
       
      2. The 4 mm winding key specified will not fit on the 0.18 AF end of the barrel arbor. The correct key is 4.5 mm.
       
      3. The suspension spring should be part no. S5516.
       
      4. The mainspring should be part no. 0321 204515.
       
      5. He gives some rather odd dimensions for the bores of the wheel collets and pinions. I’m using the following drill sizes:
      0.78 2 mm.
      0.85 #44
      0.112 #33
      0.118 3 mm.
       
      That’s all for now – back to the workshop.
       
      Russell.
      Advert
      #3630
      Russell Eberhardt
      Participant
        @russelleberhardt48058
        #82783
        johnp10
        Participant
          @johnp10
          Hello Mr Eberhardt,
          If you will kindly contact me at johnp10@ virginmedia.com I will endeavour to answer your queries.
          Regards.
          John Parslow.
          #82857
          johnp10
          Participant
            @johnp10
            I must thank Mr Eberhardt for pointing out that a number of errors the have crept into the 15 day skeleton clock series in M.E. from 28 March to 15 August 2008.
            Items 1,2,3 & 4 in Mr. Eberhardt`s list are correct as printed.
            The drills that I used were standard Imperial sizes when the clock was first built but there is no reason that the sizes suggested by Mr. Eberhardt should not be used as long the diameters of their matching arbors are adjusted to fit.
            John Parslow.
             
            #82872
            Mogens Kilde
            Participant
              @mogenskilde92996
              Hello Folks
              As Mr. Eberhardt has started this topic, I simply have to show my progress on making the very same clock.
               
              Previous you all have been kind to give me some feedback on the tool making for the project.
               
               
              In the building proces I have made metric design of all parts, as you might see the next step is the ThirdWheel section.
              So far the project has been very interresting, so I would like to thank Mr. Parslow for his design of this clock.
               
              Mogens
              #82980
              Russell Eberhardt
              Participant
                @russelleberhardt48058
                Morgens,
                 
                It’s looking good so far.
                 
                John,
                 
                The drill sizes I came up with are the closest I could find to the decimal dimensions in the article. The metric ones are closer than the nearest number drills. Of course, as you say, it doesn’t really matter as the parts should be made to fit.
                 
                A question when it comes to the pivot holes in the frames: I guess the holes are drilled to the pivot diameters and then opened out with a broach. My question is how much should they be opened? I have seen books recommending that the arbors should be able to tilt by about 15 deg. but the frame thickness must affect the amount of tilt for a given clearance. What would you recommend?
                 
                Russell.
                #83050
                johnp10
                Participant
                  @johnp10
                  Hello Russel.
                  I suggest that you drill the pivot holes a few thou. less than the pivot diameter then broach the hole on the inside of the frame plates until the pivot will just fit into the hole. At this stage cut the oil sinks on the outside of the plates, lightly countersinking the holes first to provide a location for the d-bit. Now broach out the pivot holes equally on each side of the frame plate to give about 5 degrees of arbor lean in all directions. Fit the arbour and wheel into the clock frame and check that it spins freely. If it does`nt spin freely or stops with a jerk then one or both holes may be a little too tight. A final check is to fit the arbor and wheel in position then suddenly invert the clock frame When a click should be heard as the arbor drops taking up the end shake.
                   
                  John.
                  #83081
                  Russell Eberhardt
                  Participant
                    @russelleberhardt48058
                    Hi John,
                     
                    Thanks for that.
                     
                    Perhaps a silly question but:
                    I had a problem with a clock I repaired where I re-bushed a couple of pivot holes. It would run OK for a few days, then loose half an hour the next day, then run OK again. I found the problem to be that I had made the pivot holes too sharp on the inside edge and the pivots had a significantly rounded corner at the shoulder. This occasionally caused things to stick.
                    Would you recommend an undercut on the shoulder of thee pivot, making polishing difficult or a slight countersink on the inside edge of the holes?
                     
                    Russell.
                    #83170
                    johnp10
                    Participant
                      @johnp10
                      Hello Russell,
                       
                      Machine your pivots with a sharp internal corner and chamfer the arbor at about 60 degrees inc. to about 1 m/m diameter larger than the pivot , then c`sk the pivot hole just a few thou. to remove the sharp corner. This reduces the rubbing friction between the pivot shoulder and the frame plate.
                       
                      John.
                       
                      #83196
                      Russell Eberhardt
                      Participant
                        @russelleberhardt48058
                        Thanks
                         
                        Russell.
                        #106559
                        Mogens Kilde
                        Participant
                          @mogenskilde92996

                          Hello

                          Could someone (maybe John him self ) tell me the dimension of the main spring, for 15-day clock.

                          I know the part number is stated in the article, but still I would like to know the dimension

                          Thanks in advance

                          Mogens

                          #106579
                          roy entwistle
                          Participant
                            @royentwistle24699

                            Hi The part no's of the suspension and main springs will depend on where they are puchased from

                            Roy

                            #106586
                            Mogens Kilde
                            Participant
                              @mogenskilde92996

                              Hi Roy

                              Thanks for your reply.

                              Exactly… Thats why I would like to know the approximate dimension, and experiment in the work shop

                              Mogens

                              #106597
                              RJW
                              Participant
                                @rjw

                                Mogens, the part number is useless if you don't know the supplier to whom the numbers pertain!

                                If it helps, you will find that when buying mainsprings from a supplier, the dimensions you will use to select them from stock charts are:
                                (a), the internal diameter of the mainspring barrel
                                (b), the working depth of the barrel, which is internal measurement from the bottom of the barrel to the inside face of the barrel cap, you can get away with using a depth gauge using the seat for the cap as a datum!
                                Allow for working clearance inside the barrel when closed, the springs available will probably determine this, too wide and the cap won't fit, so select the size down where it will!

                                (c), the 'Force' or thickness of the spring, this is the main dimension you will need because you already have the others if you have the barrel to hand!

                                Meadows and Passmore usually have a good stock:
                                **LINK**

                                It's a bit of a faff going from their homepage because there's no direct link to their mainspring listings (robots), but click 'Buy Online' > Enter M&P Store > The Driving Force + enter 'mainsprings' in the search box > this will take you to their mainspring listings, you'll get an idea then of their sizing conventions and increments of dimensions between sizes, it's the same for all of the suppliers I've used.

                                John

                                #106599
                                johnp10
                                Participant
                                  @johnp10

                                  Hello Mogens.

                                  Thank you for your query.

                                  The mainspring that you require is available from Meadows & Passmore, Tel 01273 421321.

                                  Part number 0321 204015

                                  Dimensions, 20 x 45 x 45.

                                  This was originally in stainless steel but a look today on M & P website seemed to indicate that is now only available in clock grade steel. This should be satisfactory.

                                  Hope that this helps.

                                  Regards.

                                  John Parslow.

                                  #106604
                                  Bazyle
                                  Participant
                                    @bazyle

                                    Russell has a number of progress photos uploaded. Just click on the link under his name on the original post. They demonstrate that clockmaking skill is passed down the generations so perhaps one day the relevant gene will be identified. Thanks for sharing.

                                    #106612
                                    Mogens Kilde
                                    Participant
                                      @mogenskilde92996

                                      Thanks to you all, now I can go on with experimenting The last 40 mm dims. is that the outer diameter of the coiled spring when supplied ?

                                      Mogens

                                      #106623
                                      RJW
                                      Participant
                                        @rjw

                                        Mogens, the sepc's given of 20 x 45 x 45 are:

                                        20 = 0.20mm which is the thickness or 'Force' of the Spring,
                                        45(1) = 45mm = 'Height' of the spring, which is the depth of the barrel with cap fitted and allowance for working clearance,

                                        45(2) = 45mm = Internal diameter of the mainspring barrel!

                                        The spring will be supplied fully coiled and wired, you will need a mainspring winder to release it from the wire so you can clean and lubricate the spring before fitting, and then to wind the spring again prior to fitting to the barrel.

                                        Note that with both Height and Barrel diameter, for purchasing other sized springs, you will need to check which way round M&P specify those dimensions, I've numbered them 1&2 for the purpose of this reply only, they may be the other way round!

                                        Spring 'diameters' are sized on internal barrel sizes, and have no bearing on the actual diameter  of the coiled spring you will be supplied with, it would depend how tightly M&P wound it before wiring it up!
                                        Although it's most likely it would drop straight into a barrel, you wouldn't want to do that without cleaning any preservative and dust off, then lubing it first!

                                        Hope this makes sense,

                                        John

                                         

                                        Edited By RJW on 17/12/2012 19:35:24

                                        #106625
                                        Mogens Kilde
                                        Participant
                                          @mogenskilde92996

                                          Hi John

                                          On the M & P website I find the following for the partnumber 0321 204015 :

                                          HOLE END CLOCK MAINSPRING 20mm x 0.40mm x 40mm You will find other sizes of mainspring in chapter 15. Clock-grade steel.e

                                          I believe this means that the thickness (Force) i 0.4 mm and that the width (barrel height) is approximately 20 mm, this leave the 40mm to be the inside diameter of barrel

                                          Is this correct ?

                                          Regards
                                          Mogens

                                          #106629
                                          Russell Eberhardt
                                          Participant
                                            @russelleberhardt48058

                                            I believe the correct measurements are 20 x 0.45 x 45.

                                            The M & P reference is 0321 204515.

                                            Russell

                                            #106646
                                            RJW
                                            Participant
                                              @rjw

                                              Morgens, Yes you've got it, the figures Russel has since added are for the corrected mainspring, the decimal point was missing from the sizes in the reply I quoted from, and I never checked M&P's site first to confirm sizes beofre posting, apologies for any confusion!

                                              John

                                              #106664
                                              Mogens Kilde
                                              Participant
                                                @mogenskilde92996

                                                Hello folks

                                                Thank you very much, I will go ahead in the workshop.

                                                Wish you all a merry christmas.

                                                Mogens

                                                #106674
                                                johnp10
                                                Participant
                                                  @johnp10

                                                  Hello Mogens,

                                                  Yes, that is correct.

                                                  Regards.

                                                  John.

                                                  #106692
                                                  johnp10
                                                  Participant
                                                    @johnp10

                                                    Hello Morgens,

                                                    Yes, That is correct.

                                                    John.

                                                    #107338
                                                    Mogens Kilde
                                                    Participant
                                                      @mogenskilde92996

                                                      Hello folks

                                                      Just wanted to show my tool for winding the main spring

                                                      img_0171.jpg

                                                      Hope the photos tell the function, otherwise you just ask, I'll be happy to answer

                                                      Regards and a hope for a happy new year to all of you

                                                      Mogens

                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 41 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Newsletter Sign-up