Stuart 10V

Advert

Stuart 10V

Home Forums Stationary engines Stuart 10V

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #3538
    Scott Murray 1
    Participant
      @scottmurray1
      Advert
      #642094
      Scott Murray 1
      Participant
        @scottmurray1

        Hi, I am brand new to this Forum. I bought a Stuart 10V Kit (unmachined). I also bought a book "Building a vertical steam engine from castings by Andrew Smith" revised by Pengwern. I notice that the outside dimension of the crank web on the Stuart drawing is 5/8" and in the book it is 11/16". Has anyone else come across this? Also, when the engine is assembled do the outside faces of the crank web run against the inside faces of the crankshaft bearings.

        #642173
        John Purdy
        Participant
          @johnpurdy78347

          Scott
          To answer your last question the distance between the bearing inner faces and the crank webs should be the same plus a small clearance. On my engine, built in the late '70s, I'd estimate that it is a couple of thou. On the plans that came with my casting set there are some build notes and with reference to this it states "The shaft should turn without binding in the bearings but with practically no end play".

          In my book, which is "Building a Steam Engine from Castings" by Edgar Westbury, not Andrew Smith, the crank webs are shown as 5/8" wide the same as the drawings. Check the distance between the mounting hole for the bearings in the base casting and the distance between the mounting holes in the bearings and the inner faces of the bearings. They should be the same as the width of the crank web plus a few thou. On my drawings, and in the book, the distance between the holes in the base casting is 1 1/4" and the distance from the mounting hole in the bearing to the inner face is 5/16" so when mounted on the base casting the gap between the inner bearing faces is 5/8", same as the crank width. Obviously there also has to be a small clearance as stated above so the crank can turn freely.
          Check these dimensions on your plans, an in the book, and see how they add up.

          I'm not sure this has answered your question but I hope it helps.
          John

          Edited By John Purdy on 21/04/2023 18:44:54

          #642174
          JasonB
          Moderator
            @jasonb

            Just measured mine and the crank is 5/8" with just a running clearance between it and the bearings

            This build of a 10V by a beginner member is worth a read

            #642175
            Baz
            Participant
              @baz89810

              Scott welcome to the world of Model Engineering where every set of drawings has errors, no matter how old they are they will not have been corrected.

              #642204
              Scott Murray 1
              Participant
                @scottmurray1

                Hi everyone, Thanks for these replies. They help tremendously. I now understand the importance of the relationship/fit between the web crank faces and the main crankshaft bearings.

                One thing I forgot to mention though about the crankshaft bearings. The turned O.D. dimension of 27/64" at either end have lengths of 1/8" and 5/32" I am assuming the 1/8" dimensions are positioned on the inside of the soleplate!!.

                Thanks again,

                Scott.

                #642207
                JasonB
                Moderator
                  @jasonb

                  No, as John hinted at they face the inside and leave a 5/8" gap for the crankshaft.

                  If you look at the soleplate drawing it shows the stud holes at 1 1 /4" ctrs

                  Middle section of bearing is 5/16" so middle to edge is 5/32"

                  Protruding round section also 5/52"

                  So when assembled you have 5/32 + 5/32 + 5/8 = 5/32 + 5/32 = 1 1/4

                  Edited By JasonB on 22/04/2023 07:42:54

                  #642217
                  Scott Murray 1
                  Participant
                    @scottmurray1

                    OK. The penny has dropped. Thanks everyone for all your help and patience.

                    Scott.

                    #643423
                    Django
                    Participant
                      @django

                      The 10V is a nice engine. It’s a well documented build and it will teach you quite a lot about fitment. Do you plan to add the reversing? It can always be added later, but there is less repeated work if it is done from the start.

                      Best of luck with the build.

                      #643443
                      noel shelley
                      Participant
                        @noelshelley55608

                        A 10V as George says is a nice engine but fitting the reversing gear really finishes it off ,I have a D10 with the reversing gear, I polished it all as I assembled it. Noel.

                        #643494
                        Scott Murray 1
                        Participant
                          @scottmurray1

                          Hi, Sounds interesting but although I am a time served turner/machinist (more years ago than I care to remember) I need to learn to walk before I can run. Actual machining doesn't present a problem but I need to get my head round the build, alignment and workings of model steam engines. I've still to find out the principle of how steam engines work. I'm sure if I manage to complete it I will take up the challenge of the reversing gear.

                          Thanks Scott.

                          #650985
                          Scott Murray 1
                          Participant
                            @scottmurray1

                            Hi, I'm considering using an O ring for the piston on the Stuart 10V I am currently machining. Can anyone advise what size O ring I should use. Also what size/depth of groove would be required in the piston.

                            Scott.

                            #659533
                            Scott Murray 1
                            Participant
                              @scottmurray1

                              Hi,

                              I am still machining the Stuart 10V. The valve rod and piston rod specify "stainless steel" on the Stuart drawing. Can anyone advise if it would be OK to use mild steel?

                              Thanks in advance.

                              Scott.

                              #659534
                              JasonB
                              Moderator
                                @jasonb

                                The rods tend to be stainless to prevent rusting and stainless is what is suppled in the kits so that would be best. If you go for mild steel then PGMM (precision ground mild steel) would be better than just bright mild steel.

                                If you do want to use an o ring then a BS113 would be the right size. Groove 0.125" wide and 0.098" deep

                                #659554
                                Scott Murray 1
                                Participant
                                  @scottmurray1

                                  OK. Thanks for that.

                                  Scott.

                                  #659578
                                  Rick Hann
                                  Participant
                                    @rickhann79631
                                    Posted by Scott Murray 1 on 04/07/2023 14:48:08:

                                    Hi, I'm considering using an O ring for the piston on the Stuart 10V I am currently machining. Can anyone advise what size O ring I should use. Also what size/depth of groove would be required in the piston.

                                    Scott.

                                    Scott, You must calculate the depth of the groove based upon the cylinder bore diameter. You should not use published o-ring compression recommendations. I would shoot for no more than 5% compression of the o-ring. It should be a easy fit in the cylinder. Rick

                                    #659583
                                    JasonB
                                    Moderator
                                      @jasonb

                                      My figures of 0.098" give approx 5% compression of the nominal 0.103" section ring I suggested. That is based on the Arnold Throp calculations that can be found in Model Engineer's Handbook and paper versions of Reeves catalogue.

                                      #659651
                                      Scott Murray 1
                                      Participant
                                        @scottmurray1

                                        Hi,

                                        Thanks for the resposnses. I'm afraid though that the compression of the o ring and the calculation thereof means very little to me. It's something I need to read up on. In the meantime I shall use the size that you have given and see how I get on.

                                        Thanks again.

                                        Scott.

                                        #659653
                                        noel shelley
                                        Participant
                                          @noelshelley55608

                                          Hi Scott, If you intend to use an O ring then the finish of the cylinder bore is very important if you want to run the engine. Using a small cylinder hone is one way to get a good finish though there are other ways This then means leaving the cylinder bore slightly undersize, say .025mm, then you hone or finish to size. .I only mention this as your comment above indicates you may not be from an engineering background Good luck. Noel.

                                          #659697
                                          Rick Hann
                                          Participant
                                            @rickhann79631
                                            Posted by JasonB on 08/09/2023 16:26:41:

                                            My figures of 0.098" give approx 5% compression of the nominal 0.103" section ring I suggested. That is based on the Arnold Throp calculations that can be found in Model Engineer's Handbook and paper versions of Reeves catalogue.

                                            My post was not meant to dispute your numbers. I have built quite a few engines and because I am not an expert machinist, often times I have ended up with cylinder bores that are not "spot on". A few thousandths over or under planned dimensions will make a difference on the groove dimension, especially on a small bore cylinder. Another variable to consider is the actual diameter of the o-ring cross section. Rick

                                            #659699
                                            noel shelley
                                            Participant
                                              @noelshelley55608

                                              With out getting out some books, O rings are available in both odd imperial sections and also metric sections so that give or take one can normally find a ring to do the job. Noel.

                                              #659748
                                              Steve Rowbotham
                                              Participant
                                                @steverowbotham77083

                                                Hello Scott, sorry I'm a bit late to this thread, only just seen it. To answer your question 'has anyone else come across the 11/16 vs 5/8' issue, the answer is yes I did earlier this year. I am new to Model Engineering, this was my second engine and I had the same dilemma, so I decided to make machine the base casting and bearings and measure the width between the inner faces, and found it to be 11/16 as per the pic below (bit of interpolation needed!). I then made the crank to the 11/16 dimension, it was a tight fit between the bearings and needed a little easing. I would be interested to hear how you got on with this. I finished the 10V a few months ago, and am very please with how it runs (on steam). I have now bought the reversing gear which which I will tackle after my current project, the Stuart Beam which I am currently half way through. Steve

                                                img_2038.jpgcompleted 10v

                                                #659780
                                                Rick Hann
                                                Participant
                                                  @rickhann79631

                                                  Ah! One must first determine what "the job" is! The desired result is a smooth moving piston with minimal friction that seals. To do that you must know what ACTUAL dimensions you are dealing with. I.E. ACTUAL bore diameter, ACTUAL O-ring X-section diameter, and desired O-ring compression I have found that 5% compression is the upper limit of compression. If it were me, I would shoot for a for no more than .005" total compression. For example: Assume a nominal bore diameter of .750". Assume actual bore diameter = .753". Assume nominal 3/4" x 1/16" (.0625&quot 0-ring will be used. Actual measured x-section = .071". Desired 0-ring groove diameter would be .753" – 2x.071" + .005" = .616". If you noticed, There is no need to know the piston diameter as it obviously must move freely. The o-ring groove depth has no meaningful relation ship to the piston diameter. Groove width is not so critical. It needs a bit of side clearance. Using published O-ring compression numbers will most likely result in far too much drag. Rick

                                                  #659894
                                                  Scott Murray 1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @scottmurray1

                                                    Stuart 10V

                                                    Hi,

                                                    Would brass be a suitable material for the piston and valve rods for the Stuart 10V?

                                                    Scott.

                                                    #659895
                                                    JasonB
                                                    Moderator
                                                      @jasonb

                                                      Probably be lower down the list than mild steel, why not just get some stainless steel, 303 is easy enough to work with.

                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 33 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Home Forums Stationary engines Topics

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Newsletter Sign-up