Can anyone identify this lathe?

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Can anyone identify this lathe?

Home Forums The Tea Room Can anyone identify this lathe?

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  • #268982
    SillyOldDuffer
    Moderator
      @sillyoldduffer

      This is idle curiosity. I enjoy old films on the 'TalkingPictures' channel. It shows mostly British films 1930 – 1970. Part of the appeal is the street scenes, cars, ships, trains and workshops.

      These clips are from 'Jungle Street Girls' made in 1961. It stars David McCallum before 'The Man from Uncle' and 'NCIS'. He plays a young thug and the film ends with him being dragged off screaming by the police to a quick trial and certain hanging. There are many scenes involving scantily clad ladies; obviously I ignored those.

      When he's not causing mayhem our hero works in a garage. Can anyone identify the lathe he's using? And, as I've never seen a lathe in a garage, when did they stop using them for motor repairs?

      lathe1.jpg

      lathe2.jpg

      lathe3.jpg

      Thanks,

      Dave

      Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 29/11/2016 17:08:26

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      #34791
      SillyOldDuffer
      Moderator
        @sillyoldduffer
        #268987
        mick70
        Participant
          @mick70

          sorry can't help but just had chuckle.

          my 7 yr daughter looked at pics and said that naughty man isn't wearing goggles.

          #268990
          Jon Gibbs
          Participant
            @jongibbs59756

            It looks like a Myford ML1, 2, 3 or even 4 to me…

            **LINK**

            Jon

            Edited By Jon Gibbs on 29/11/2016 17:18:29

            Edited By Jon Gibbs on 29/11/2016 17:22:06

            #269001
            Hacksaw
            Participant
              @hacksaw
              Posted by naughtyboy on 29/11/2016 17:13:41:

              sorry can't help but just had chuckle.

              my 7 yr daughter looked at pics and said that naughty man isn't wearing goggles.

              That's because he's the Invincible Man yes

              #269004
              NJH
              Participant
                @njh

                Quite so Jon as I posted the other day I had one and we spent many happy hours together – I'm still not sure if it was ML1,2,3or 4

                Norman

                #269005
                Rainbows
                Participant
                  @rainbows

                  Not an ML1. Headstock is't cast as one. However the link has this image.

                  I see an atleast passing similarity in the countershaft.

                  #269016
                  Ajohnw
                  Participant
                    @ajohnw51620

                    The bed looks too high top to bottom to be an ML to me. It looks like a heavier lathe.

                    It also looks like the tailstock clamps in a more conventional way. In the V on one side and a clamp on the V at the rear.

                    John

                    #269025
                    J Hancock
                    Participant
                      @jhancock95746

                      Perhaps a Zyto or Gamage look-a-likes of the 1940/55 era ?

                      #269027
                      Neil Wyatt
                      Moderator
                        @neilwyatt

                        Garages always used to have lathes for skimming brake discs, of course these days they are consumables.

                        #269049
                        PaulR
                        Participant
                          @paulr

                          Photo #2: Absolutely no risk of eye injury. Must remember to use my lathe like this (or maybe not, I can't see anything without glasses if it's closer than the sun).

                          #269131
                          SillyOldDuffer
                          Moderator
                            @sillyoldduffer

                            arrest5.jpg

                            The homo-erotic sub-text between Mitchell and Kasansky in 'Top Gun' went completely over my head. Now I realise that 'Jungle Street Girls' isn't about disaffected youth at all. It's actually a condemnation of 'over the top' Health & Safety. This is the scene in the film when H&S take the hero into custody for not wearing goggles.

                            Dave

                            #269137
                            Georgineer
                            Participant
                              @georgineer
                              Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/11/2016 20:49:10:

                              Garages always used to have lathes for skimming brake discs, of course these days they are consumables.

                              They were also used for skimming commutators on dynamos and starter motors before it became economical to buy reconditioned units. Also, many of the older garages – my grandfather's included – grew out of engineering businesses, and retained such machine tools as they had.

                              As for the lathe in the film, my Zyto (and all the others I have seen) was not a cantilever bed and had a much lighter bed casting. The ML4 was by far the most common Myford model. The bed looks too long for the ML1 and ML2. The ML3 with separate headstock was only made between 1937 and 1941. The tailstock clamp is correct for the later ML4 with, as far as I can see, an upper adjustment screw and a lower clamp. The backgear guard isn't a standard Myford one, but they weren't supplied fitted until relatively late, so many people would have made a 'hum grumit' one (remember that?). The backgear lever is pointing vertically downward, which I've never seen, but it may be possible with a non-Myford guard. There is a whole host of other details consistent with the ML4, so my vote is for Myford ML4 or a very close copy.

                              George

                              #269141
                              Ajohnw
                              Participant
                                @ajohnw51620

                                I've seen some "small" toolroom lathes with a cantilever bed but the whole lot was supported on an under driive unit casting "pillar" directly under the headstock. Being used in a toolroom anyway. I'd guess that they were production lathes really due to the fairly small space they occupied rather than the usual big Colchester.

                                Small is a relative term. I'd say circa 30" centres, and say circa 8 centre height. Pretty heavily built and no support on the tailstock end. Can't remember if they were gear heads or not but suspect so. The support casting was pretty hefty as it would need to be. They gave a very good finish on nitriding steel. The aim was to avoid grinding which gives some idea of the finish they could achieve.

                                I'm estimating sizes relative to a Boxford – bigger in other words in terms of centre height etc.

                                Bit of a thread hijack but I wondered if anyone knew what make they might be.

                                John

                                Edited By Ajohnw on 30/11/2016 12:35:19

                                #269153
                                MW
                                Participant
                                  @mw27036

                                  Nevermind the goggles, look at those belts on the example! They're all twisted, it'd be unfortunate to get caught up in all that.

                                  Michael W

                                  #269195
                                  SillyOldDuffer
                                  Moderator
                                    @sillyoldduffer

                                    I waded through quite a few pictures on lathes.co.uk last night in the hope of spotting this one. No luck so far. There are several similar English cantilever bed lathes but nothing spot on. Most of the possibilities are too small. It's rather like a Drummond/Myford but looks a bit rough to me. This night be because its a rear view of a lathe that's had a hard dirty life, or perhaps it's a copy.

                                    #269268
                                    Hopper
                                    Participant
                                      @hopper
                                      Posted by Rainbows on 29/11/2016 18:19:47:

                                      Not an ML1. Headstock is't cast as one. However the link has this image.

                                      I see an atleast passing similarity in the countershaft.

                                      Surely this is the same lathe as in the OP photo? Not just the countershaft is the same, but bolted on headstock and the tailstock has the same curved upright below the quill and that rather unique locking lever on the tailstock quill.

                                      #269278
                                      not done it yet
                                      Participant
                                        @notdoneityet

                                        Ever thought that maybe they threw together parts from different sources to avoid paying for the privilege of using something real in the production? Part this, part that, part something else, so unrecognisable?

                                        #269288
                                        Dusty
                                        Participant
                                          @dusty

                                          Michael, the twisted belt is a mechanical means of reversing the lathe. Lift the motor untwist the belt put it back on the pulley, lo and behold the lathe runs in the opposite direction.

                                          #269294
                                          Ajohnw
                                          Participant
                                            @ajohnw51620

                                            I thought Myford always used a proper means of locking the tailstock quill. Photo 2 shows a split casting.

                                            John

                                            #269317
                                            SillyOldDuffer
                                            Moderator
                                              @sillyoldduffer

                                              Now I've waded through lathes.co.uk I think it might be a Pools Special. Unfortunately, like the rather similar Myford / Drummonds, it's not an exact match.

                                              The lathe was shown working and making the right electric motor noises so I think it's genuine, perhaps well used. British films of that time were made very cheaply and it's possible they borrowed a real garage rather than building a set. Likewise the film 'Ghost Ship' is set on a steam yacht and the engine room scenes are convincing. I think that's because it's a real engine room, complete with working oil-fired boilers, gauges, pipework and a steam engine.

                                              #269379
                                              Dusty
                                              Participant
                                                @dusty

                                                Having worked in the Film industry it is generally cheaper to use existing facilities then build a set if there are only a few shots to film. Not only do you have to pay for the set to be built but also hire studio time all expensive commodities. Back in the dark ages it was even more so. Production offices always want cheap even now.

                                                #269548
                                                MW
                                                Participant
                                                  @mw27036
                                                  Posted by Dusty on 01/12/2016 17:12:58:

                                                  . Production offices always want cheap even now.

                                                  Who doesn't I guess? In the days of yore management wasn't filled with so much theory and efficiency garble, and were actually from a stock of people who worked from the ground up rather than railroaded from university courses.

                                                  Definitely wouldn't build a set for this and probably is/was a real location with perhaps a few extras bundled for the sake of the plot. However that said, it Is increasingly difficult to justify expenditure on anything when everyones looking to save 1 or 2% on skimming everything down to a skeleton. Why not just accept that some things have to cost and are worth it.

                                                  Thanks for explaining the belt twist by the way.

                                                  Michael W

                                                  #269763
                                                  Georgineer
                                                  Participant
                                                    @georgineer

                                                    Out of curiosity I took a photo of my ML4 from the back – a view I very seldom have seen as it usually has its back to the wall. I used a fairly low viewpoint like the original (though I haven't got a cast iron tray under mine). Unfortunately David McCallum wasn't available, so I photographed the lathe on its own.

                                                    ml4 back view.jpg

                                                    The backgear lever can point downward if you take the guard off. I still think the one in the film is an ML4.

                                                    George

                                                    Edited By Georgineer on 03/12/2016 23:18:55

                                                    #269765
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                                      Posted by Ajohnw on 01/12/2016 09:22:29:

                                                      I thought Myford always used a proper means of locking the tailstock quill. Photo 2 shows a split casting.

                                                      .

                                                      John,

                                                      Check George's latest photo … it should clarify what you thought you saw.

                                                      MichaelG.

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