Repair a small cast bell

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Repair a small cast bell

Home Forums Help and Assistance! (Offered or Wanted) Repair a small cast bell

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 53 total)
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  • #650814
    simondavies3
    Participant
      @simondavies3

      The photos show a small and delicately cast bell in cast iron which didn’t survive being dropped onto the tiled floor.
      I have been asked if I can fix it and before attacking it, I wondered if the panel had some advice (even if it was don’t bother!).
      I doubt that it will ring again with the same sound but something better than the dull noise would be good.

      Looking closely, it appears that a crack was already in existence and the fall simply finished the job. One side of the break is mildly corroded, the other bright.
      I was contemplating cleaning and attempting a silver solder or braze joint from the inside to limit the visible repairs but not sure what the effects of serious heat will be on such a delicate casting with a 2mm or so wall.

      any thoughts gratefully received.
      simon

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      #34240
      simondavies3
      Participant
        @simondavies3

        Brazing?

        #650819
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133

          My approach … after appropriate cleaning, would be to place a series of paillons of [jeweller’s style] Silver Solder in the joint, then bind it with soft Iron wire, and heat the lot in one go.

          MichaelG.

          .

          Oops blush … Please ignore my suggestion

          … I missed the reference to it being Cast Iron

          Edited By Michael Gilligan on 02/07/2023 21:56:20

          #650821
          bernard towers
          Participant
            @bernardtowers37738

            Manganese bronze is good for cast iron repairs.

            #650822
            Nick Wheeler
            Participant
              @nickwheeler

              It's never going to ring again(although I doubt a thin cast iron bell ever did more than clonk), so epoxy the broken bit back.

              #650825
              Dalboy
              Participant
                @dalboy

                If it is just a decorative item will soft solder be a good option or as above epoxy resin which will mean that very little touch up of the paint.

                #650826
                noel shelley
                Participant
                  @noelshelley55608

                  Few metals will bond or wet with cast iron very well. IF this item is only decorative I would use an epoxy after good cleaning. Any form of soldering or brazing and the heat used may well crack on cooling. Noel

                  #650827
                  Steviegtr
                  Participant
                    @steviegtr

                    I guess you could just JB weld it. Saves any heat

                    Steve.

                    #650830
                    Stueeee
                    Participant
                      @stueeee
                      Posted by bernard towers on 02/07/2023 21:48:19:

                      Manganese bronze is good for cast iron repairs.

                      That's what I've always used, vee out whichever side you are going to braze, Manganese Bronze will run like Silver solder when the job is up to red heat. use standard brazing flux with the filler rod.

                      #650832
                      Ady1
                      Participant
                        @ady1

                        pinkgrip

                        #650839
                        Speedy Builder5
                        Participant
                          @speedybuilder5

                          If you are going to attempt silver solder or braze, you need to heat to red heat, let it cool and then give the mating surfaces a good brush with a fine wire brush to remove surface carbon, then proceed with the braze or whatever.

                          However, I would advise the 'owner' that it could be a complete failure and worse off than in its present state should the process fail.

                          Good luck and tell us what happened next.

                          Bob

                          #650841
                          David George 1
                          Participant
                            @davidgeorge1

                            This is a repair using bronze brazing rod on a cast base of a steam engine.

                            20210618_123034.jpg

                            20210618_125039.jpg

                            It was heated a bright red heat and used Sifbronze flux. It was filed up afterwards and you couldn't see the repair after painting.

                            David

                            #650842
                            simondavies3
                            Participant
                              @simondavies3

                              Thanks for all the advice. Discussions with the owner have pushed me towards a brazed fix. Watch this space for updates and photos !

                              Simon

                              #650849
                              vic newey
                              Participant
                                @vicnewey60017

                                A simple repair; that would not ruin the patina as would any form heat with soldering/brazing etc; is cyanoacrylate superglue.

                                #650853
                                noel shelley
                                Participant
                                  @noelshelley55608

                                  Simon, if your going to braze make sure you have a high temperature flux, silver solder flux is unlikely to last long enough to get up the heat. Noel.

                                  #650855
                                  martin haysom
                                  Participant
                                    @martinhaysom48469

                                    just glue it the old crack ment it did dot ring before it got dropped

                                    #650866
                                    Dave Halford
                                    Participant
                                      @davehalford22513
                                      Posted by Simon0362 on 03/07/2023 07:44:57:

                                      Thanks for all the advice. Discussions with the owner have pushed me towards a brazed fix. Watch this space for updates and photos !

                                      Simon

                                      What colour did they want it back in?

                                      #650868
                                      vic newey
                                      Participant
                                        @vicnewey60017

                                        Brazing will ruin it, just glue it

                                        #650870
                                        noel shelley
                                        Participant
                                          @noelshelley55608

                                          The customer is always right ! BUT Vic is right, heating it will ruin it ! Noel.

                                          #650890
                                          old mart
                                          Participant
                                            @oldmart

                                            I would glue it with epoxy. Scrape back any external witness and repaint. The glue will be as strong as brazing if the bell cannot withstand dropping on a floor and you would still have to repaint it if it were brazed, and the external brazing would be much harder to disguise.

                                            #650900
                                            Nicholas Farr
                                            Participant
                                              @nicholasfarr14254

                                              Hi, you could re-cast it, but you would have to add more metal to the melt, oh! but you'd be adding more metal anyway if it's brazed.devil

                                              I agree with others, and I would glue it.

                                              Regards Nick.

                                              #650919
                                              Nigel Graham 2
                                              Participant
                                                @nigelgraham2

                                                Whatever method you use, and I would think glue the simplest and safest, it is very unlikely to "ring" again, if it ever actually rang in a proper bell-like manner.

                                                The joint will likely act as internal reflector and impedance mis-match to do all sorts of weird and not-so-wonderful things to the vibrations in the metal.

                                                Still, it is a nice enough object as an ornament, so worth the effort to perform at least a cosmetic repair.

                                                #650927
                                                gerry madden
                                                Participant
                                                  @gerrymadden53711

                                                  I thought I recognised that !

                                                  It's a miniature replica of a bell in the temple at Kamakura, Japan. I purchased mine in 1985 on my first trip to Tokyo. Mine is currently in regular service. It gets rung out of the kitchen window when I'm in the workshop and a meal is ready. Contrary to expectations, it does have a very clear and loud ring, hence its current employment.

                                                  You never know, they might still be in production…..

                                                  dscn0054.jpg

                                                  #650933
                                                  simondavies3
                                                  Participant
                                                    @simondavies3
                                                    Posted by gerry madden on 03/07/2023 19:03:55:

                                                    I thought I recognised that !

                                                    It's a miniature replica of a bell in the temple at Kamakura, Japan. I purchased mine in 1985 on my first trip to Tokyo. Mine is currently in regular service. It gets rung out of the kitchen window when I'm in the workshop and a meal is ready. Contrary to expectations, it does have a very clear and loud ring, hence its current employment.

                                                    Ours came as a trio from Kyoto about 10 years ago, the other two also ring true with a delightful sound, hence the desire to make an attempt at more than a cosmetic repair.
                                                    Interesting that the finish on yours has lasted a number of years, not sure what it is but I think it’s chemical.

                                                    #654535
                                                    simondavies3
                                                    Participant
                                                      @simondavies3

                                                      So an update to anyone following this thread.

                                                      Thanks to a very kind offer, I was sent some coated SiF Bronze to use for my attempts at a repair.

                                                      The excellent advice in this thread and privately suggested heating the bell to red, cooling and then mechanically brushing the joint surfaces – that was achieved successfully. I then used a Dremel with a tungsten burr to further clean and to make a V-groove on the inside of the bell to allow the braze to flow.

                                                      I then clipped the two pieces together and applied some Tenacity N°1 flux. The two parts were held together by thye spring tension in the bell itself (spoiler alert!).

                                                      The next step was heating and applying the Sif Bronze to the interior and allowing to cool. I was pleasantly surprised at how it flowed nicely into the inside groove although my technique leaves much to be desired I suspect!

                                                      Significant effort was then required to clean it up. Sadly, the two parts slipped slightly so one joint is near perfect and almost invisible, the other side has a small step – maybe next time I should bind with iron wire or similar.

                                                      I struggled to remove the two fluxes and eventually mechanically ground them from the inside and picked bits off from the outside.

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                                                      Finally, the best part of all is that IT RINGS!! Proof of the pudding is in a 20 second YouTube video for anyone interested at (https://youtube.com/shorts/hAzSyVrEpdk?feature=share) Ringing Bell

                                                      Finally, finally….does anybody have any ideas about how to replace the verdigris finish on the bell – I am pretty sure it was a chemical effect rather than paint and all I can find on the web seem to refer to paint substitute finishes. Answers on a postcard please – or better still, here!

                                                      Simon

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