.

I’m sorry, Paul … but I think those two extracts sum it up

It is not ‘bigoted discrimination’ … it is just a simple fact of life

… The skilled input has a value, and a price.

MichaelG.

Paul

Is this just a rant? There is nothing wrong with that. I like a good rant.

Or an appeal for help? There are people out there who will help you. The first thing to do is make the appeal and give some idea of the location of your workshop.

JA

It's a trade and it takes years to learn at any level

The people who are good at it are classed as highly skilled labour

The bit I missed until later on is that model engineers are only just above watch/clockmaker size engineers for a lot of the stuff they do and I'm more a chunky bits guy

The reason for the Myford procedure is that in the old days it was more difficult to achieve consistent low tolerances in chuck mountings than it is now.

Lathes for industrial as well as domestic/hobby use were typically sold initially without fitted tooling like chucks, even if such accessories formed other item lines on the same order.. So the idea was that buyers would mount the backplate on their threaded spindle nose and turn its O/D to a precision location fit in the counterbore of the chuck they happened to have, and drill clearance holes for the screws to secure the chuck body – which would therefore run to the best practically-achievable concentricity.

Engineers are required to spot this sort of thing, and to be ingenious (note liguistic-derivation pun) in their resolution of it.

Undoubtedly there's a culture associated with this, and part of it is due to the usually humiliating period of apprenticeship young people wanting to enter the field would have had to endure. Many are unwilling to give away for free the knowledge they've acquired at such personal cost – or perhaps, not so much unwilling, as that it simply doesn't occur to them to do so. Plus there's so much of this kind of background knowledge that most of us just don't know where to start in trying to shortcut someone to it.

Of course the world has moved on since then, and it's pretty easy now to buy a lathe already equipped with a basic selection of tooling – but for that you'd generally have to pay more, either buying new (probably from the Far East) or a running machine sold in good order as a going concern by somebody giving up.

Basically the facts of the game are *very generally* that if you want cheap, you need to have the knowledge and skills to provide the value you're avoiding paying money for.

Edited By Mick B1 on 21/04/2023 13:34:54

Sorry to heap more dust on the bones, but a 4-jaw self-centring chuck isn't a ideal choice either! It's more usual to own a 3-jaw self-centring chuck (which grips round and hexagon stock), and a 4-jaw independent chuck (for holding odd shapes and precise centring with a dial.) A 4-jaw self-centring is for putting an extra tight grip on round stock, when a 3-jaw isn't good enough.

There are ways of machining a backplate on a chuck-less Myford, but it's not a good place to start learning! The technique dates back to before lathes had chucks, so rarely needed these days. Easier to buy rather than DIY, but buying needs a certain level of understanding:

• Chucks are rarely made to fit particular lathes. Instead, a backplate is used to connect whatever holds the chuck to whatever is available on the lathe spindle. Many variations so bespoking backplates is a common requirement and blanks are readily available. It's not a con!
• Ready machined backplates are normally only sold with a chuck, as a set made to fit a particular machine. Someone measures the chuck and designs and machines backplates to match. There's no guarantee the backplate will fit another make of chuck or another type of lathe. The purchaser has to be careful!

One reason people buy new Chinese machines is they usually come with all the basics needed to get going; the beginner isn't thrown in at the deep end with a problem like how to make a backplate. Second-hand is more pot-luck.

Don't worry too much – these are typical teething troubles. Becomes clearer once the basic accessories have been identified and fitted, books read, forum interrogated, and methods YouTubed! (Be wary of the latter: internet videos often have quality issues!) It's also necessary to develop skills, so plenty of practice.

I'm afraid there are no shortcuts to learning engineering. Sellers don't know what individual customers don't know, or what purchasers need to make life easy. They cater for the majority. Bear in mind engineers are expected to understand problem solving, which includes knowing what they need to buy. Every time I drop a workshop clanger, I remind myself that professional machinists qualified after a 7 year apprenticeship, and I have no training!

Dave

And as you improve you use better gear which does a better job

All my early drills were Lidl and ebay jobs but now its all Dormer and Presto and I grab any old imperial drills like a hungry dog

Paul as a total novice myself some of what you say I found out myself from researching. I spent over a year looking at various machines before I even ordered mine. I have asked on here what many may think are stupid or simple questions. I found out in the end from both research and the answers I got on here and other model engineering sites.

Yes i did order a lathe and mill possibly oversize for what I intend to make but that is allowing some growth on my part (rather too big than too small).

I have also brought books and done a lot of reading I at least come into this hobby with opened eyes and knew some of the things I will encounter, I still have a lot to learn but will look into those as they turn up.

I brought a ER collet holder for my lathe and made my own backplate for it out of ali, now I am remaking this out of steel (Cast iron may have been better)

If you have questions then ask I was always told no question is stupid if you don't know even if afterwards the answer is staring at you. Yes I have asked those type of questions as I am sure many have also done

If the OP approaches suppliers with the same tone as the above rant then I am not surprised he got short shrift.

Of course there is a lot of knowhow involved in engineering, both knowledge and understanding which are not the same. Much knowledge is not written down but is gained by experience. However, a lot of it is really only commonsense.

To take the example given; the ML7 has a threaded spindle nose. No engineering knowledge is needed to see that any chuck must have a mating thread. So buying a chuck at random on Ebay isn't likely to be satisfactory.

It costs money to have people offering advice to potential customers, and that has to be accounted for in selling prices. The OP seems to want to pay bottom dollar for top dollar service – ain't gonna happen.

It's at times like this that one really misses the late JohnS.

Andrew

I miss John S all the time!

Ian P

Paul,

I started off with an ancient and worn flatbed Drummond. I later went to a local toolshop for hand tools and unexpectedly discovered they were a Myford stockist with a brand new ML Super 7 for sale. Room over shop had piles of boxes full of Myford spares. I bought lathe, stand, 4" 3 jaw self centering chuck which was ready threaded to screw on mandrel nose and 6" 4 jaw independent + blank backplate which needed to be screwed on to the mandrel and machined to fit the rear of the chuck. Work out the dia. of the pitch circle of bolt holes in the chuck and set a sharp cornered tool to scratch that dia. on the back plate. Trf backplate to drilling machine and drill four generous clearance holes on the marked pcd. Jobbie done! I frequently went back to that shop for more bits. The shopkeeper was an older woman and what she didn't know about engineering wasn't worth knowing. I only knew Lathework from schooldays and reading books as listed above. School didn't have a mill, I am completely self taught by reading books and mags and using the mill that I later bought. No question is daft, we have all had to learn.

Just ask and those with knowledge and experience will help.

Please put something in you forum profile so we have an idea where you are. Someone nearby could be willing to visit you and give further help and advice.

Good luck!

John