Unusal Stuart Turner No. ? engine

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Unusal Stuart Turner No. ? engine

This topic has 18 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 13 January 2018 at 15:10 by ianj.

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26 November 2017 at 10:58 #3323
ianj
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@ians
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26 November 2017 at 10:58 #329211
ianj
Participant
@ians
good Morning.

Can any body help to identify this Stuart Turner engine.?

It's 13 1/2" high, 2" bore & stroke with a 7 1/2" fly wheel..

The steam inlet and exhaust are on the same side of the steam chest/cylinder..

The cylinder bore/stroke would suggest it's a number 1 but as you can see it has two separate vertical standards with the piston rod/ crank small end guide running between them.More photo's in my Stuart Turner album.

As you can guess it's a restoration project!

Thank you.

Ian
26 November 2017 at 16:03 #329239
mechman48
Participant
@mechman48
Hi Ian ,
Looking through the Stuarts catalogue I would suggest it is a No1…with a modification to the frame work & reversing gear added…

George
26 November 2017 at 16:20 #329242
michael potts
Participant
@michaelpotts88182
Ian.

I do not have my early Stuart catalogues ; my son seems to have them for some reason. However what you have is probably an early No 1 engine, and by early I mean pre WW2. I seem to remember that these machines had two cast standards rather than one standard and a support column. When I lay hands on my catalogues I will have a look.

Mike Potts.
26 November 2017 at 16:30 #329245
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
As Michael says I have seen other early No1 engines with the two part standards like yours, think they may well be pre WW1
26 November 2017 at 16:49 #329250
Maurice Cox 1
Participant
@mauricecox1
I agree; it is an early No.1 It would be interesting to find out how early. I have an old No.1 that I restored, with one standard and a steel column, the same as present day. All the threads are Whitworth. I called Stuart Turner, and they said that they changed to B.A. threads in 1918; so I think it reasonable to assume that mine predates this date, and that Ian j's engine even older than that. It might be worth contacting Stuarts to see if they can tell you when the design was changed. They were most helpful when I called.
26 November 2017 at 17:44 #329264
michael potts
Participant
@michaelpotts88182
If everyone can wait until I get hold of my Stuart catalogues we will find out, because I have them back to the year dot. Stuarts used Whitworth threads until at least WW2, I thought that they changed to BA after 1946 because that was when they started to sell off their stocks of Whitworth studs, nuts and bolts. The catalogues may be back tomorrow evening, otherwise Tuesday morning.

Mike Potts
26 November 2017 at 18:29 #329269
ianj
Participant
@ians
Thanks everyone for taking the time to help identify this engine.

Just to correct the fly wheel dimension. it's 71/4" not 7 1/2" as I originally stated..

Very interesting fact about changing from Whitworth to BA threads just checked mine and indeed they are Whitworth.

Mike. Yes it would be appreciated if you could look it up in your catalogues..

This raises the question on whether it's best to restore it i,e remake worn parts, new studs and nuts, paint job etc or just give it a good clean, bearing in mind this is a workshop funding exercise!

Any way once again thank you

Ian
26 November 2017 at 19:02 #329271
Steamer1915
Participant
@steamer1915
Hello Ian,

I think it's a number 5 (Not 5A). I have one that was built in the 1920's and entered into an exhibition in Liverpool. It is indeed 2"x2" and similar to the number 1 except for the double standard. When I have a spare minute, I'll post some pics along with a page from a 1924 Stuart catalogue that lists the casting set.

Best regards,

Steve.
26 November 2017 at 19:08 #329273
ianj
Participant
@ians
Thanks for that Steve.

The plot thickens !!

Ian
27 November 2017 at 12:41 #329391
michael potts
Participant
@michaelpotts88182
And, to the catalogues.

The # 5 engine was listed in our 1906 reprint, was listed in 1928, but not listed in 1930.

BA threads appeared for the first time in the 1948 catalogue.

Mike Potts.
27 November 2017 at 14:27 #329400
HughE
Participant
@hughe
From my 1961 cat it looks like a No 1 with various mods. Left hand support is a bar not as shown in your photo.

Certainly the reversing gear looks like the one shown on the No 5

No 1 has a 2" bore and Stroke and is 13" high.

No 5 has a 2 1/4" bore and a 2" stroke and is 15" high.

Hugh

Edited By HughE on 27/11/2017 14:28:09

Edited By HughE on 27/11/2017 14:33:43
27 November 2017 at 16:05 #329409
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
I've got one. It's a 5a.

Rik
27 November 2017 at 16:25 #329415
michael potts
Participant
@michaelpotts88182
The # 5 engine did not exist in 1961. By then the # 5a was supplied as it had been for over 35 years.

How are you intending to restore it, because Stuart standards changed a lot after WW2, notably in pipe thread standards. Before they had a list of thread standards, 13 in all, in the catalogues. Six were brass gas sizes, three were iron pipe sizes, the smallest three sizes were standard Whitworth threads. The fourth size, designated # 3 was a real Stuart special, 3/16" X 36 TPI. It was used for small fittings, and has caused us no little trouble over the years.

Station Road Steam used to have a list of Stuart engines, but that seems to have vanished recently. It was useful, because over the years there have been a lot of different engines, many now completely forgotten. They are usually seen as auction lots, that is if the photographs are good enough to be useful.

Mike Potts.
27 November 2017 at 16:30 #329416
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Posted by Rik Shaw on 27/11/2017 16:05:39:

I've got one. It's a 5a.

Rik

5A has a tubular trunk guide and the "A" frame standard is a single casting. The one in the photo has flat guides and the standard is two separate castings.

5A is also 2 1/4" bore but the 5 is 2" bore and 2" stroke so possibly a No5
27 November 2017 at 17:39 #329424
ianj
Participant
@ians
thanks everybody for getting involved in this mystery engine and taking the time to look in your catalogue collections.

It sounds as if it's a No.5 dated between 1906 to 1929.,from Mike's research. and Steve's comments.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I've started to dismantle it and the top cylinder cover has a "4" cast on the inside, were some parts identified with a number corresponding to a part on a drawing.? Another strange feature is the piston has a single piston ring groove with two piston rings in it ( one of which is broken), is/was this a common practice.?

On the subject of replacement piston rings when the outside diameter of the ring is quoted ( eg 2" is this the size of the ring or the size of the bore it's for ( the ring is bigger than 2"?

Just had a reply from Stuart Turner models:-

"Stuart Turner back in the day (pre first world war) made a series of engines with a double sided standard and sliding cross heads, I think this may be one of them."

That's it for now !

Ian

Edited By ian j on 27/11/2017 17:58:12
27 November 2017 at 17:55 #329427
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Yes 2 rings in one groove is fairly common.

Rings are sized by the bore they are intended to run in.
27 November 2017 at 18:30 #329432
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
"5A has a tubular trunk guide"

Correct, next time I’ll have to look at the photos more closely.

Rik
13 January 2018 at 15:10 #336572
ianj
Participant
@ians
Thought I would just update you with a couple of photo's of the engine.I made several new parts:-

New crank shaft, piston rod, valve rod, slide valve, exhaust and flange and piston rings.

Painted satin mid Brunswick green.

It runs on compressed air quite well but it's got a knock which I'm pretty sure is coming from wear between the cross head and the bottom of the vertical columns.

Here is a link to a short video of it running on air;-

**LINK**

Edited By ian j on 13/01/2018 15:11:51
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