Help to stop backlash

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Help to stop backlash

Home Forums Help and Assistance! (Offered or Wanted) Help to stop backlash

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  • #212713
    glenn thomas
    Participant
      @glennthomas48964

      Can anyone offer me advice on obtaining a Acme profile 3/4 10tpi left hand thread single start nut? Its for the topslide on my Qualters & Smith 1324 lathe. I have tried several u.k companys only one would help at a cost of £370 as they would have to make the tooling to turn the thread, and that was for one plain nut (i would have to sape it and weld a lug on).

      I have found a company in U.S and have sent several emails which they have not replied to, so i have taken the hint.

      I have no expectations of finding the correct nut, i would be happy just to get a nut i could make fit, just to get rid of the exessive backlash which is annoying me!

      Please help.

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      #32599
      glenn thomas
      Participant
        @glennthomas48964
        #212715
        James Alford
        Participant
          @jamesalford67616

          Glenn,

          I cannot help with making a metal nut, but I had a similar problem with the main carriage nut on my Flexispeed. I used polymorph to make a replacement, moulding it around the leadscrew and then shaping it to fit. So far, it is working well. Others have used Delrin to do the same job.

          This my original thread, which contains links to the Delrin idea and several thoughts by others on alternatives to polymorph.

          Regards,

          James.

          #212717
          glenn thomas
          Participant
            @glennthomas48964

            Thanks James, hadn't thought about that, will look into it!

            #212720
            Ian Parkin
            Participant
              @ianparkin39383

              I would have thought that i can cut you a nut

              lets see a diagram first but I should imagine £50-60 will do it in bronze

              #212736
              Chris Evans 6
              Participant
                @chrisevans6

                Have you googled lead screws ? Several UK companies list lead screws and nuts at very reasonable prices. I will soon be stripping my lathe to replace the cross slide screw and nuts. A length of acme or trapezoidal threaded bar a pair of nuts and some machining should see the job done. Mine will take a little longer as I intend to make a new Cross slide at the same time.

                #212737
                Chris Evans 6
                Participant
                  @chrisevans6

                  Just checked the places I bookmarked. Auto motion in stock and Kingston engineering. Bothe list screws plus nuts in various materials.

                  #212753
                  Hopper
                  Participant
                    @hopper

                    Anyone with a lathe can make one.

                    #212754
                    Ady1
                    Participant
                      @ady1

                      Aluminium is also a good option, T6 has very good wear properties and is easy to cut

                      #212788
                      Bazyle
                      Participant
                        @bazyle

                        As an alternative to James' polymorph above look at moulding warmed Delrin around the nut. Search for "evanut" which will find a long series of reports of success on the HSM site.
                        Are you sure it is 3/4 in for a topslide. That seems a lot even for a heavily built lathe like that. There are also a number of ways to improve backlash other than a new nut depending on the particulars of the design.

                        #212797
                        Ajohnw
                        Participant
                          @ajohnw51620

                          It might be best to ask what degree this excessive back lash is in terms of % rotation ?

                          John

                          #212828
                          glenn thomas
                          Participant
                            @glennthomas48964

                            I'm loosing about 15mm on the dial of the topslide which on some things is causing ripples in the work! I sent the actual nut to Abssac who identified it and were very helpful and suggested Kingston or Halifax, all these companys and many others i have tried cannot help as all their machinery is metric, hence the high cost to make a one off.

                            Thanks for all your help so far though!

                            #212846
                            Ajohnw
                            Participant
                              @ajohnw51620

                              Are you sure you mean 15 mm ? One complete turn of a slide dial doesn't usually move the slide that much. That's why I asked in terms of percentage of a turn or fractions eg 1/10, 10% etc.

                              The reason I asked is that sometimes people expect too much in terms of backlash. One turn of yours would move the slide by 0.1" or circa 2.5mm but best stick to inches if that's what you have. In real terms on a lead screw with that pitch and new parts might give you around 0.010in back lash maybe up to 0.015in measure on the scales.Lathes with far more than that are still usable.

                              The answer to cope with backlash is to always wind into a cut. That way the back lash is taken out. If for some reason you wind in too far wind out say 1/2 a turn or more and then wind in again to the correct setting. If the nut was well worn say 1/2 turn 0.050in backlash then wind out over a turn and then back in again. Even with that amount of play the lathe is still usable but most people would be thinking maybe it's time to change the nut. Problem though – the lead screw will be worn as well – if you do organise a tight nut some how it will be too tight in places.

                              There isn't much on the web concerning adjusting gib strips on lathes. Best done with the lead screw out or disconnected and the slide pushed by hand. What's wanted is very slight resistance to movement and no binding due to the oil film breaking down. People use all sorts of oil but some have changed to slideway oil and found it to be better – including me but your gearbox oil is probably suitable.

                              There is a bit here but a bit myford based as are other bits and pieces on the site which is now archived.

                              **LINK**

                              If you still don't get a decent finish it would be best to post some photo's including one of the tool you use.

                              John

                              Edited By John W1 on 17/11/2015 18:09:14

                              #212847
                              mark costello 1
                              Participant
                                @markcostello1

                                Roton in the USA has them. 1-800-GO-ROTON (1-800-467-6866)

                                #212849
                                glenn thomas
                                Participant
                                  @glennthomas48964

                                  Thanks for reply John, no its not 15mm, you can tell i'm a novice! theres about a quarter of a turn where nothing happens. You are right of course that the lead screw is worn too in one spot but the nut is twice as bad and i was hoping that if i could find a nut with a good thread i would reduce my problem, even better if i found a longer nut it would have extra contact on the better threads?

                                  I have emailed Roton 3 times with no reply!

                                  Thanks again.

                                  #212851
                                  Bazyle
                                  Participant
                                    @bazyle

                                    Did you get the nut back? photo? Are you definitely talking about the topslide and not the cross slide? A common kludge is to slit the nut and force the gap to close or apart to take up the slack. Depending on how much room there is around where it fits there are some other solutions.

                                    #212862
                                    Tim Stevens
                                    Participant
                                      @timstevens64731

                                      It might be helpful to remember that there are generally two places where backlash will be created. The thread is one, but the other is where the feed screw is located. The nut wears a bit all along but mainly in one section, but the locating bit wears continuously wherever the slide is.

                                      Cheers, Tim

                                      #212873
                                      Ajohnw
                                      Participant
                                        @ajohnw51620

                                        You have a usable lathe with 1/4 of a turn of backlash and as some is always there best get used to it and later when you have learned to use it make a new nut and leadscrew yourself. This aspect is very unlikely to cause your finish problem. Loose slides can plus other aspects.

                                        Sometimes it's not play in the nut that causes a lot of the backlash – it's the bearing that locates the lead screw. If that's the case you will see the parts round the dial moving backwards and forwards as you try winding in and winding out. On a lathe like the Kerry it's probably adjustable.

                                        John

                                        #212875
                                        frank brown
                                        Participant
                                          @frankbrown22225

                                          Take apart the compound to extricate the nut, because If its like my 70 year old British lathe the leadscrew is steel and the nut is bronze and extremely worn. On my one, the tops of the visible threads are almost pointed, they are so thin. You can check for this by screwing the compound right out and check its "loose" movement against a fixed position. A clock dial is good for this. Repeat when the compound is screwed right in. These two extreme positions are not often used in daily life so the leadscrew will hardly be worn, but the nut could be be. In mid travel of the compound both components will be worn.

                                          Frank

                                          #212924
                                          Breva
                                          Participant
                                            @breva

                                            Glenn,

                                            Have a look at this site. It should answer some of your questions and gives the full sequence on making an acetal /delrin nut.

                                            John

                                            **LINK**

                                            #212937
                                            glenn thomas
                                            Participant
                                              @glennthomas48964

                                              Thanks everone for all your help and some really good points, much appreciated.

                                              #218471
                                              Ian Parkin
                                              Participant
                                                @ianparkin39383

                                                Glenn here's your finished lead screw

                                                When I received the parts it was quickly obvious that the nut wasn't worn that badly but looking at the screw that was badly worn at the length that gets all the action…the flat top of the acme thread had worn to a nice rounded top.

                                                If the nut was moved to the unworn extremities there is hardly any backlash. I can only imagine that the nut is newer than the screw

                                                The nut is a simple 1" diameter bronze threaded 10tpi 3/4 LH pressed into the holding block and a oil/grease hole through to the thread

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                                                #218492
                                                Kettrinboy
                                                Participant
                                                  @kettrinboy

                                                  When the table leadscrew nut stripped on my Dore Westbury mill , i obtained a 1/2 inch x10 tpi second tap and proceeded to tap a scrap bit of bronze to try it out , i found that it took so much force to make it cut even a few mm i was afraid the tap would break , but looking on a forum i saw a guy had used a hot moulding technique using polyacetal plastic to make a new crosslide nut for his lathe with good results and i had a bit of that plastic to hand albeit in bar form , it was easy to tap 35 mm of thread and completed and fitted to the mill works just fine , should cause less wear to the leadscrew as well ,

                                                  #218499
                                                  Ady1
                                                  Participant
                                                    @ady1

                                                    i found that it took so much force to make it cut even a few mm i was afraid the tap would break

                                                    With some jobs most of the threadcutting work is done on the lathe, and the final profile with the tap

                                                    #218506
                                                    Kettrinboy
                                                    Participant
                                                      @kettrinboy
                                                      Posted by Ady1 on 30/12/2015 15:05:15:

                                                      i found that it took so much force to make it cut even a few mm i was afraid the tap would break

                                                      With some jobs most of the threadcutting work is done on the lathe, and the final profile with the tap

                                                      Thats what i was contemplating doing but making it out of plastic saved me the bother of grinding up an acme form tool .

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