Warco 250v noisey after removing Banjo/Gears to change oil

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Warco 250v noisey after removing Banjo/Gears to change oil

This topic has 16 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 13 September 2015 at 10:36 by Matt Homer 1.

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11 September 2015 at 19:09 #32569
Matt Homer 1
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@matthomer1
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11 September 2015 at 19:10 #203942
Matt Homer 1
Participant
@matthomer1
Hi all,

wanted to change the oil in the gear box as suggested after a few months use. As expected the oil drain plug is located behind the lead screw gear !!

Disengaged the banjo that holds the change gears and took off all the gears as I needed to take off the Lead screw gear to get to the drain plug.

Changed oil etc etc

put the gears back on and adjusted backlash as best I could….engaged banjo back onto spindle cog and checked everything moving smoothly.

Fired up the lathe and low and behold sounded very noisy around the spindle/chuck region almost like the bearings had gone.

Disengaged the change gear banjo so nothing touching the spindle cog and turn on lathe and it sounds nice and quite !

took off all change gears again then re-attached …. did the paper test for setting teeth engagement but still very noisy.

Its almost like the gear change banjo is pressing too hard against the spindle but I have tried it being nice and tight …loose…but still same result…very noisy in the spindle/chuck region I think.

Never thought that doing simple maintenance would cause this much hassle….then again I am new to the world of home engineering….or is it just cheap Chinese stuff ?

ps working perfectly fine before messing with the change gear banjo.

Many thanks

Matt
11 September 2015 at 19:32 #203945
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
It's not easy to get change wheels to run quietly and I suspect this is your problem. Can't pass any comment on a paper test – what thickness paper etc. What I do myself is adjust for a little angular play. They mustn't be too tight or too loose. There has to be some clearance.

John

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11 September 2015 at 19:58 #203948
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Set backlash between all meshing gears including fixed spindle gear to first gear with a strip of photocopy paper.

Also make sure you have the right washers between banjo and gears, if like my 280 they are slightly different thicknesses, if you get them wrong the sides of the gears will rub together and sound like a box of spanners.

J
11 September 2015 at 21:32 #203952
Matt Homer 1
Participant
@matthomer1
Thanks guy's for replies….just spent another hour and a half having a go but still no joy.

Did look at washers like Jason suggested but think I had them the right way round and they are different thickness.

Did manage to get it slightly better but then lost it again when moving it around.

Pretty convinced that is where the noise is coming from but I did get a bit worried that it may have been coming from the gearbox…..gear oil used in there and probably slightly overfilled.

Cant believe this banjo mechanism is so fussy …. really puts me off changing gears to do any threading.

Have another go tomorrow !

cheers

Matt
11 September 2015 at 22:54 #203958
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
I'm not sure what arrangement you have but on a boxford the tumbler reverse runs onto a gear on the stud. The 1st screw cutting gear fits on the same stud. These will have been set so that the gears mesh on their PCD so can give an idea of how much rotational play there should be. On the boxford I don't think that the spindle gear to tumbler is a reliable gauge. It's machined into the spindle. It might be on others. The tumblers are tufnol anyway so tend to be quiet.

The usual problem I have is meshing the gear on the banjo with the one on the stud.

John

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11 September 2015 at 23:04 #203960
John Rudd
Participant
@johnrudd16576
Tumbler reverse is built into the gearbox on these……only three gears on the banjo, iirc, feeding from spindle down to input shaft on gearbox…err well it is on the bigger machines like the 290….

Edited By John Rudd on 11/09/2015 23:05:03
12 September 2015 at 07:36 #203970
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Matt once you have done it a couple of times its very quick, couple of mins at the most.

Not quite sure how you "lost it while moving about" What I do is nip up the banjo clamp with it pointing at about 45degrees towards me and change the gears as needed leving the studs slightly loose. Then starting from the gearbox input set the gap between that gear and the next one up that meshes with it and lock the stud. New strip of paper into the next pair of gears, set gap and lock stud. Then loosen the banjo, swing it into mesh with the spindle and a strip of paper between to set gap then lock the banjo clamp. Nothing should move out of place if done like this and you will get a very quiet set of gears.
12 September 2015 at 07:46 #203973
Matt Homer 1
Participant
@matthomer1
Thanks Jason….once I have done my fathers taxi service this morning I will get onto it….many thanks Jason and everyone else for your replies.

Matt
12 September 2015 at 08:59 #203984
Gray62
Participant
@gray62
The gears on my WM250V are particularly noisy. much worse than those on my GH1330. These gears are definitely not as well made as my other machine which does not help, Jasons' method works well, I also found that a very light smear of chainsaw chain oil helped to quiten things down a bit.
12 September 2015 at 09:01 #203986
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
I seem to remember a Warco BH600 I had developing a bad case of gear noise. I think there was a sleeve that held two gears together that ran on a stud, I found that it was badly worn and made a new one out of brass. Anyway have a look for worn bushes etc and try a little grease on the studs (if you haven't already).

Regards.

David.
12 September 2015 at 09:18 #203989
Matt Homer 1
Participant
@matthomer1
Thanks guys….will take on board your comments.

Nothing could of happened to the gear box itself could it ?….remember giving the leadscrew gear a light tap with rubber mallet to get it back in place after changing the oil.

When I do get the banjo in place and manually turn the chuck to rotate things it seems to run smoothly with no rattle but as soon as you speed it up gets very noisy.

difficult to see as I have to put the side back on to turn on the lathe.

Will give it another go today.

Thanks

Matt
12 September 2015 at 11:31 #204004
Gray62
Participant
@gray62
This will probably get the elfins out in a cold sweat but… If you want to 'see' what's going on, just unbolt the interlock plate from the rear of the changewheel cover and put it into the interlock switch as a 'temporary' measure, saves a lot of faffing around with the cover while you are looking into this particular problem.
12 September 2015 at 12:08 #204011
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Or just turn the chuck by hand with the saddle half-nuts disengaged.

neil
12 September 2015 at 13:29 #204021
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Or just put your finger on the interlock (with care)

Sorry its sideways forgot I was using teh camera and not the phone. Running at about 250rpm as I had something big still on the lathe. Depends on what you turn your volume upto I suppose but they are not noisy and quieter still with the cover on.

Edited By JasonB on 12/09/2015 13:30:34
12 September 2015 at 16:27 #204042
Gray62
Participant
@gray62
Posted by JasonB on 12/09/2015 13:29:20:

Or just put your finger on the interlock (with care)

That's not possible on the newer machines, the interlocks used have a narrow slot into which a blade inserts as the cover is put on.
13 September 2015 at 10:36 #204108
Matt Homer 1
Participant
@matthomer1
All sorted !

took off the interlock plate as suggested to save me time taking side off and back on.

Final gear was the culprit….took it off put it back on and seemed slightly tighter.

Did paper test to mesh all gears one by one…..but….still noisy.

Manual kept adjusting the banjo left and right until got all gears not rubbing and the final mesh

with the spindle was ok and hey presto back to be a quiter lathe.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Cant wait till I get my milling machine next month to see what fun and games that brings !

Cheers

Matt
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