Vague idea how to start….

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Vague idea how to start….

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  • #200953
    Dominic Berry
    Participant
      @dominicberry27582

      Dear All, I am trying to work out how to make a small retracting cylinder, by which I mean, something along the lines of a roller blind, but that is drawn out, and then when let go, will return by itself. The dimensions are: Cylinder length 55mm, diameter 7mm.

      I was thinking of a 7mm brass cylinder with a helical torsion spring inside, one end fixed to the brass 'rotating' drum, and the other to an inner steel axle, of about 1.5mm diameter.

      I'm learning, so please forgive me if this sounds ridiculous, but I need to solve this one as I have to make 10-20 of these little blighters!

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      #32549
      Dominic Berry
      Participant
        @dominicberry27582

        Small cylindrical retraction mechanism…

        #200970
        JohnF
        Participant
          @johnf59703

          Try and have a look at an old plate camera, they had a shutter with this type if mechanism, the shutter being made of cloth . The return spring was from memory somewhat larger than the drum and mounted on the outside using a clock type spring.

          I have a couple in the attic that belonged to my grandfather if you want photos send me a PM

          Regards John

          #200972
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133

            Interesting puzzle, Dominic

            First question … Am I right in assuming that the mechanism needs to be contained within that 7mm diameter x 55mm long envelope?

            Second question … How much does it need to rotate? fraction of turn, or multiple turns?

            There will be more !!

            MichaelG.

            #200973
            Dominic Berry
            Participant
              @dominicberry27582

              Thank you John and Michael for your quick replies.

              Michael, you’re exactly right, it needs to be contained within the 7mm tube. It also needs multiple rotations, between 5 and 7.

              #200978
              Neil Wyatt
              Moderator
                @neilwyatt

                How much torque needed?

                The simplest solution (if not the most reliable) is winding up a large rubber band…

                Neil

                #200993
                Dominic Berry
                Participant
                  @dominicberry27582

                  Thank you Neil, having made balsa planes as a child that was my first idea, but as you say, it needs to be much more reliable than that. I remember years ago restoring a very old clockwork boat for a friend. That was powered by a long, approx 30cm slack spring. That’s the kind of power delivery this needs. I’m afraid I have no idea what torque it needs, but I don’t think that much, just enough to return about 5-7 turns of silk or similar.

                  #200995
                  Michael Gilligan
                  Participant
                    @michaelgilligan61133

                    Dominic,

                    I don't know their proper name, but; the style of spring that lifts an up-and-over Garage Door would probably do the job … I'm sure such things must be available [somewhere!] in miniature sizes.

                    MichaelG.

                    Edit: Here are some useful illustrations

                    Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/08/2015 14:23:49

                    #200996
                    Neil Wyatt
                    Moderator
                      @neilwyatt

                      Sounds like a long coil spring with a loose rod down the middle may be up to the job.

                      Neil

                      #201000
                      Michael Gilligan
                      Participant
                        @michaelgilligan61133

                        Dominic,

                        Unlikely to be practical, because you would need electrical power & control. but these are a "near miss"

                        MichaelG.

                        #201004
                        John McNamara
                        Participant
                          @johnmcnamara74883

                          Hi Dominic

                          Once you have determined the wall thickness of your tube you will know the maximum outside diameter of your spring, you will also need to allow clearance.

                          I am guessing maybe 1.2mm wall for the 7mm tube? that would leave about 4mm for the spring. I think you will need to get an idea of the force required, hopefully not a large force to retract your material.

                          The thinner the spring wire is the better allowing more turns in the 55mm length you have available. this will reduce the stress on the wire as it winds up five to seven times.

                          Musical instrument shops sell spring wire for strings, maybe a good place to get short lengths of wire to experiment with. Or maybe you have a spring maker nearby.

                          Roslau make good quality music wire.

                          **LINK**

                          This book is worth having if you work with springs.

                          **LINK**

                          Regards
                          John

                          #201006
                          Gordon W
                          Participant
                            @gordonw

                            I would try with a long coil spring down the tube. Don't think you would need a rod down the middle. One end fixed to a mount and other end to the tube. Springs are quite easy to make if you have a lathe, pester some guitar playing friend for any single wire string and try a few.

                            #201015
                            Dominic Berry
                            Participant
                              @dominicberry27582

                              Many thanks for the continued advice. Yes, I’d read somewhere about trying to make my own springs with guitar wires etc. I need the central, stationery axle to fix the unit in place. I don’t have any exact requirements for wall thickness on the outer tube, so whatever works is fine. I’d have thought, with the overall size of the unit, that anything over 1mm wouldn’t be necessary. Have considered trying to find a local engineering firm to make these up for me too, but have no idea what they’d charge.

                              #201019
                              David Clark 13
                              Participant
                                @davidclark13

                                They would probably charge £250 to £300 for a 10 off. What are they for?

                                #201058
                                Dominic Berry
                                Participant
                                  @dominicberry27582

                                  I have managed to get hold of a couple of springs, so will have a go at a mock up tomorrow. Will post the results! Having explored the concept a little more, I think I will actually only need 3-3.5 revolutions.

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