Kasenit desperately needed

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Kasenit desperately needed

This topic has 15 replies, 15 voices, and was last updated 2 October 2015 at 14:03 by Russell Eberhardt.

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18 June 2015 at 08:20 #193961
Oompa Lumpa
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@oompalumpa34302
I really could use a couple ounces of Kasenit if anyone has any to spare. I will happily pay for it and the postage from anywhere.

Alternatively I will happily show my Ar*e in Burtons window if that works?

Thanks in advance,

graham.
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18 June 2015 at 08:20 #32510
Oompa Lumpa
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@oompalumpa34302
18 June 2015 at 08:40 #193964
HomeUse
Participant
@homeuse
Haven’t seen Kasenit for years – But still use home made hardener that was used before Kasenit came on the market –

2 parts powdered carbon ( ground up charcoal – BBQ )

2 parts molasses ( Black Treacle is the nearest available )

1 part baking powder ( Bicarb of Soda – Sodium Bicarb )

Mix all together (Nice sticky goo) – Heat steel and coat in mix – leave to cool till able to touch – reheat and re dunk – take out of mixture before cool and wire brush.

May need couple of treatments (depends on steel and thickness of skin treatment required)

This was method used by my grandfather in the early 40/50s – He was a Coach Builder and Wheelwright.

Best to do treatment outside as the fumes are a bit pungent –

Edited By HomeUse on 18/06/2015 08:42:39
18 June 2015 at 08:51 #193966
Capstan Speaking
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@capstanspeaking95294
There are still commercial alternatives.

**LINK**

**LINK**
18 June 2015 at 09:02 #193967
Involute Curve
Participant
@involutecurve
I have a big tin of It Graham, but its at the old house, Ill pick some up next time I'm there, how quick do you want it?
18 June 2015 at 09:05 #193968
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
In the meantime while waiting for the real kasenit, try some leather cuttings, chipped into small pieces and perhaps as suggested a little charcoal though i have never used it in my mixes. All in a closed metal box and away you go.

It gave me the hardest surface I have ever done, a file bounced off it.

Clive
18 June 2015 at 09:07 #193969
NJH
Participant
@njh
Seems that you are sorted Graham but, if others are stuck, a search for "case hardening compound" on the ubiquitous EBAY will produce many choices.

Norman
18 June 2015 at 09:32 #193973
DMB
Participant
@dmb
Not tried it but I have seen Sugar recommended. I believe its another form of carbon so should work.
30 September 2015 at 23:47 #206238
john price 3
Participant
@johnprice3
Kasenit case hardening compound must only be used in a well ventilated area. The active ingredient is 1% potassium ferrocyanide (other ingredients were added to confuse analysis) and small quantities of cyanide gas is given off when heated. If you use Kasenit compound in a poorly ventilated area and feel light headed and nauseous these are the early signs of cyanide poisoning and you should move to a well ventilated area immediately.
1 October 2015 at 09:54 #206257
Douglas Johnston
Participant
@douglasjohnston98463
The second link given above for Beta Superior No.1 compound looks interesting (the first link didn't work for me ) and I was wondering if anybody has tried it. It is however not cheap stuff and I might look out the old treacle tin and mix up a home made brew as mentioned above. My 30 year old jar of Kasenit is more or less finished and I hate to think what I have subjected my lungs to over the years.

Doug
1 October 2015 at 10:14 #206260
Michael Cox 1
Participant
@michaelcox1
Blackgates, http://www.blackgates.co.uk/tools___sundry_items.html, stock a case hardening compound that contains the same active ingredient as Kasenit. I bought some at Harrogate 3 years ago and it works well. I think the price was around £5 for a 500g tin.

I have also used pack carburising by putting the parts in a mixture of charcoal and sodium bicarbonate in a sealed box. This is then heated to bright red heat for an hour or so and the carburised items then domped into cold water.

Mike
1 October 2015 at 12:24 #206275
Roderick Jenkins
Participant
@roderickjenkins93242
The online data sheet for Beta No. 1 says that it contains Potasium Ferrocyanide. However, the Beta No1 that I bought from EKP supplies came with a data sheet that says that the ingredients are charcoal, sodium carbonate solution and molasses. It doesn't stick to a red hot job like Kasenit.

The address for Knighton tools on the link above is out of date and the newer link includes the word "superior" in the description, which could mean it's different to the above stuff but also states that it is environmentally friendly which may or may not be a good thing from the usability point of view.

Can anybody positively state that any of the Kasenit substitutes actually contain Potassium Ferrocyanide. I believe that it was the melting of this compound (300C) onto the job that made Kasenit so easy to use.

Potassium Ferrocyanide seems to be pretty benign stuff, I can't really understand why it seems to have been excluded from case hardening products.

I know we've been round this buoy several times but it would be nice to know if there is a genuine replacement for Kasenit out there.

Rod
1 October 2015 at 13:26 #206277
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
You should have gone the St Albans show last weekend. Big tub of it on the sales stand.
1 October 2015 at 15:08 #206284
ChrisH
Participant
@chrish
HomeUse – sorry if the question/s may seem a bit basic, but when you say "heat steel and coat in mix" I presume you mean dunk the item in a pot of the mix and then withdraw and allow to cool, but how hot do you heat the steel, what colour are you looking for?

Chris

Edited By ChrisH on 01/10/2015 15:08:53
2 October 2015 at 11:08 #206332
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
John, I think there has been some general confusion with the make up of Kasenit, and the method of case hardening using cyanide bath hardening were the article is soaked in a bath of molten cyanide salts, this one is the highly toxic one.

To all intents Kasenit is fairly harmless, if all safety measures normally taken when heat treating steel, Wear eye protection.

Ian S C
2 October 2015 at 14:03 #206354
Russell Eberhardt
Participant
@russelleberhardt48058
Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 01/10/2015 12:24:38:

Potassium Ferrocyanide seems to be pretty benign stuff, I can't really understand why it seems to have been excluded from case hardening products.

Yes, it's even used in wine production and as a food additive, E536.

Easy enough to buy on Ebay to make your own case hardening compound.

Russell.
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