That's how I wired mine, lots of info on the web as well…

While it is better to remove them, the losses in a the choke and power factor correction capacitor are pretty low when running a LED replacement "tube". If you doe remove them the fitting should be claerly labeled to that effect.
Better overall to just replace the whole thing with an LED fitting. I got some KBAT4 units from TLC and they are good.

On a connected note fluorescent lamps are effectively being banned by the EU from 1st of Feb 2024. They have removed the exemption from the mercury ban. Of course we in the UK are not in the EU any more so it won't affect us. No, wait, the UK has passed a law, almost identical to the EU one, removing the UK exemption effective 1st Feb 2024……

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 19/05/2023 21:48:52

I recently replaced the lights in the old workshop. So at the time with the special on, it was nicer to replace the whole assembly with new batten lights with a very nice diffuser . It was so good, I changed the other 3 and the electrician added another switch, so I could have only 2 at a time going over the main work area. In hindsight, could have just installed 2 and got rid of the other 2 all together.

Neil

Because it's hotter

Article titled 'Electricity getting very expensive in the workshop'

by the way

About a year ago in our garage I fitted two LED tubes as replacements for the two 1500mm fluorescent lamps. One LED failed altogether within a couple of months, the second one started flashing on off, then only illuminated 50% until it failed, on the label attached to the LED it said, 15000 light hours, the shop replaced both FOC keep your receipts !. For the workshop, I bought 3 lengths of 30 X 30mm angle plastic and via the net a 5 metre length of self adhesive 12 volt DC LED. I stuck the LED to the angle and the angle to the roof, Its powered via a redundant computer power supply, I have a pull switch in the roof which controls the PSU input. The lighting system work well and I intend to extend the system in the autumn. Recently I fixed the driver for a friends LED outside light I was amazed how little there was in it, five components, ingenious, but it worked. John

The Owl meter in that madmodder thread looks very similar to an old Efergy unit that I have and no longer use.

I discovered it misread inductive loads badly and claimed my kitchen hob was using 200W on standby,

Could a similar thing be happening with the ballasts/chokes in the tube fittings?

The "now" function on my (dreaded) smart meter appears much more reliable.

I suspect the measurement too! Be good to see a circuit showing how the LED tube was connected relative to an unremoved LC ballast. Even if connected, it's difficult to imagine how a ballast could consume more power than a LED lamp. Maybe rewiring connected the ballast directly across L and N? Seems unlikely.

Maybe the answer lies in the nature of the ballast. It's an inductor and capacitor in series, not a resistor, and reactors do not behave like resistors when AC current passes through them. Where it not for the ohmic resistance in the copper coil, the inductor would be lossless, and the capacitor is near lossless too. Reactors work by charging and discharging efficiently, and as energy in is very nearly energy out, the loss in a well-made device is usually tiny. For example, power transformers are about 99% efficient.

I suspect the measurement. In the scientific sense power is the rate of doing work, energy transferred per second, and power is measured in Watts. In a DC system, Watts are simply volts times amps, because the two are always in phase. Not so in an AC circuit with inductors and capacitors. Being reactive these shift the phase of the voltage relative to the current, so simply multiplying AC Volts and Amps doesn't give Power. The unit being measured is a Volt-Amp, which is 'apparent power', not 'real power'. To convert Volt-Amps to Watts, it's necessary to correct the measurement for phase difference. The maths is more complicated.

The purpose of a ballast is to limit and stabilise the current flowing in a lit fluorescent tube, and they're unlikely to waste much power, certainly not nearly 60W per lamp. The acid test would be to measure the temperature of the ballast components, because they'd be cooking hot if they were really consuming 60W! As far as I can see that test, or smoke, isn't mentioned on madmodder, so my money is on Volt-Amp confusion.

Do sparkies cover inductive and capacitive weirdness? Electrical and Radio Engineers do up the ying-yang, but maybe this part of AC theory isn't useful to the chaps who do the hard work. Wiring up and installing is another skill set.

So, yes the ballast will waste some real power, but the amount should be tiny. I think the meter measured apparent power, VA, and the confusion is due not converting VA to Watts with the right maths.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 23/05/2023 18:00:03

The only meter that is relevant here is the one by which you are charged by your electricity supplier.

If IT shows excess power consumed by ballasts and capacitors left in fittings upgraded to LED then you need to be concerned as it will hit you in the pocket.

This was the case for me any other theoretical arguments are just hot air.

Andrew, you have a PM (re your current repair, not this topic)