E.stop wiring

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E.stop wiring

This topic has 33 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 11 May 2019 at 11:33 by Robert Atkinson 2.

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9 May 2019 at 10:28 #408364
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
Hello I'm looking for guidance on wiring e.stops in to a new electrical, circuit. I have a inkling but just wanted reassurance or putting right.

I've got a kjd17 5 pin with a link on one of the terminals to the 5th pin. Supply in and supply out I get but where the separate link goes from the negative to A1, is this where I run E.Stops from taking the link of and running through every E.Stop and back to the terminal.?

I'm wondering why it's the negative wire I would of thought it would be the live, but I suppose the negative is just the return of live
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9 May 2019 at 10:28 #32021
Grant Allen 1
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@grantallen1
9 May 2019 at 10:39 #408371
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
Hi Grant

Assuming you have fed live through the NC connections of an emergency stop switch (if fitted)

A1 is the "hold on" supply for the No Volt Release

Feed live to pin 23 – when Green button is pressed, without live to A1 the live supply will drop out as soon as the Green button is released

Link pin 24 to A1 taking live to your motor, if mains drops out, the "hold on" drops out rendering the circuit safe
9 May 2019 at 10:46 #408373
Bikepete
Participant
@bikepete
*deleted"

Edited By Bikepete on 09/05/2019 10:46:50
9 May 2019 at 10:47 #408375
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
So which terminals are live and neutral, this basic wiring is suggesting 13 and 24 are live, and 23 and 24 with a1 coming from the neutral out to the motor is this correct?

With relation to link wire is it this that runs from 24 through each stop button and back to A1 so if the circuit is pressed it cuts at any of the stops ?
9 May 2019 at 11:07 #408381
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
9 May 2019 at 11:37 #408396
john swift 1
Participant
@johnswift1
KJD17 E-stop wiring diagram
9 May 2019 at 12:13 #408402
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
So I think I got this now,

power IN neutral to 13

Power IN live to 1st E.stop through and onto next E.stop through and back to 23

Power to motor live 24

Power to motor neut 14

And leave the link in place from A1 to 24
9 May 2019 at 12:37 #408406
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
Posted by Grant Allen 1 on 09/05/2019 12:13:38:

So I think I got this now,

power IN neutral to 13

Power IN live to 1st E.stop through and onto next E.stop through and back to 23

Power to motor live 24

Power to motor neut 14

And leave the link in place from A1 to 24

Not quite.

This would run power through all the e-stops. A combination of your scheme and Johns is the best compromise. If you have a E-stop right next to the KDJ 17 wire it in series with the input as you describe. Then wire any additional E-stops between A1 and 24 as John's diagram shows. It's a debatable point but I would swap the live and neutral on Johns diagram so you don't have 240V live with a high current fuse running to all the e-stops.

The problem with Johns circuit is that it relies on the KDJ 17 working properly. If the closest E-stop is wired in series with the supply then if you press the normal stop and it doesn't work you will naturally hit the nearest E-stop which will. The remote E-stops still rely on the KDJ 17 but you generally won't be using them because the normal stop was broken.

Robert G8RPI.
9 May 2019 at 13:05 #408409
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
Robert is right

You want to protect the KDJ17 switch by putting the E Stop Switch first, this is shown in the middle of the three pictures, live feed to the left, live output to KDJ17 in bottom picture

Hitting E Stop Switch must prevent all live feed to downstream circuitry
9 May 2019 at 13:10 #408410
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
So…

Live in to e.stop next to kjd17 then to 13

Neut in to 23

Neut out 24

Live out 14

Extra stop 4ft away neut 24 link through e.stop back to A1 link.
9 May 2019 at 13:33 #408418
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
Assumes terminal post numbers are correct from the above information

The "hold on" relay is internally wired to Neutral, just needs a Live supply to A1

Edited By Andy Carruthers on 09/05/2019 13:34:36

Edited By Andy Carruthers on 09/05/2019 13:40:46
9 May 2019 at 13:42 #408420
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
Doesnt that diagram put the live on the wrong side ?
9 May 2019 at 13:50 #408422
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
The diagram reflects the wiring in the photos and correctly represents how the Emergency Stop Switch protects the KJD 17 and Load

Please PM if you think there is an issue, always willing to be educated
9 May 2019 at 14:03 #408425
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
Following diagram which has been drawn. Any additional stops replace the small ink wire from 24 to A1
9 May 2019 at 14:41 #408431
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
I have read your latest comment several times and am struggling to grasp what you mean

If you wire your switches as per photos and wiring schematic your wiring will be functionally correct and provide the best protection
9 May 2019 at 15:04 #408434
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
The estops should switch the coil of the NVR not the full load current of the motor.

Mike
9 May 2019 at 15:33 #408438
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
Posted by Andy Carruthers on 09/05/2019 14:41:59:

I have read your latest comment several times and am struggling to grasp what you mean

If you wire your switches as per photos and wiring schematic your wiring will be functionally correct and provide the best protection

I've wired it up to the diagram provided. The only thing I was trying to say was the extra e.stop that's 4ft away simply replaces the link wire then when pressed it would break the current, or have I got that wrong.

In relation to Mike's comment that's gone straight over my head. Please elaborate
9 May 2019 at 15:52 #408440
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
In john swift 1s schematic diagram the coil of the NVR is controlled through the estops button and the motor load is switched by the contacts of the NVR. The NVR contacts will be designed to reliably make and break the load current. An estop button is designed to switch the current of a control circuit and is unlikely to break the full current of the motor without being damaged. The coil of the NVR is a very small load and will not damage the contacts of an estop type button. Andys suggestion will put the full load of the motor through the estop contacts which could damage the contacts when operated.

Mike
9 May 2019 at 16:19 #408443
Andy Carruthers
Participant
@andycarruthers33275
Mike – You are right – on reflection, the E Stop Switch current rating is 12A @250V so unlikely to be damaged with the loads I have
9 May 2019 at 16:25 #408445
Grant Allen 1
Participant
@grantallen1
Wired up with the e.stop in same box, reading the latest I'm running a .37kw motor so di I need to be concerned ?

I now need to know how to wire up an additional e.stop, going of Robert's advice would I replace the link wire with an e.stp?
9 May 2019 at 16:49 #408451
DMB
Participant
@dmb
Mike,

I asked the forum for advice on the above, some months ago. One reply gave me Axminsters wiring which did not work. I did not buy mine from Axminster, got it from Hong Kong, identical appearance and eve same part no. Another reply gave me a different circuit which did work and has done ever since. Description follows.

Mains Live in to terminal 1 on emergency button. Live out terminal 2 from button to terminal 13 on stop /start. Live out terminal 14 to motor.

Mains Neutral in to start/ stop terminal23. Terminal 24 out to motor.

Whilst it works, have I got it wired correctly?

John
9 May 2019 at 23:58 #408517
john swift 1
Participant
@johnswift1
The reason I connected the switched live via the E-stop switch to A1 is

An accidental short between A1 and neutral or earth will blow the mains fuse

If you had live to terminal 13 and neutral to terminal 23

an accidental short between A1 and neutral or earth would energise the coil when the E-stop switch is open

assuming the mains supply is not protected by a residual current circuit breaker

john
10 May 2019 at 07:04 #408525
Nicholas Farr
Participant
@nicholasfarr14254
Hi, I agree with John Swift1 diagram. The E-stops should only control the coil of the KJD17 and if you want more than one E-stop, then they should all be connected in series with the one shown. Protection of the KJD17 should be via a fuse or circuit breaker which feeds the supply to it, as suggested and non of the load current should go through the E-stops as Mike Poole said. One advantage of this is that the only way the motor will start is by pressing the start button and unless the KJD17 is or has been seriously overloaded, it is unlikely to fail and so if you get a power cut during use, every thing after the KJD17 will be in a safe mode when power is restored.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 10/05/2019 07:17:57
10 May 2019 at 07:32 #408527
Robert Atkinson 2
Participant
@robertatkinson2
Posted by Mike Poole on 09/05/2019 15:52:39:

In john swift 1s schematic diagram the coil of the NVR is controlled through the estops button and the motor load is switched by the contacts of the NVR. The NVR contacts will be designed to reliably make and break the load current. An estop button is designed to switch the current of a control circuit and is unlikely to break the full current of the motor without being damaged. The coil of the NVR is a very small load and will not damage the contacts of an estop type button. Andys suggestion will put the full load of the motor through the estop contacts which could damage the contacts when operated.

Mike

This is not strictly correct. For the sort of loads we are talking about here a decent E-Stop switch can handle the full load and still stop the motor if the no-volt release fails. 16A rated 2 pole E-stop switches are readily available. This primary E-stop is close to the NVR. Additional, remote E-stop switches can be wired in series with the NVR coil. The switch side of the coils should be in the neutral side so the wiring is not connected to a high current live. A short to ground will disable the remote e-stop (test them once a month if you are worried) but will not cause a fire as a live feed might. If you do put the remote switch connection of the holding coil in the live a fuse should be fitted at the source end. There is no advantage in fitting the E-stop local to the NVR in the holding coil circuit rather than the power. The suggested dual power and holding coil wiring costs no more and gives redundancy. Personally I would not trust a cheap Chinese NVR as my final safety device.

I have designed E-stop, guarding and interlock systems for robotic machines to meet European and North American safety standards so do know a bit about this.

Robert G8RPI.
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