Substitute for limonene

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Substitute for limonene

This topic has 8 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 2 September 2019 at 22:10 by simondavies3.

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29 August 2019 at 14:17 #31609
simondavies3
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@simondavies3
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29 August 2019 at 14:17 #426503
simondavies3
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@simondavies3
Hi,

hoping some of the more chemically minded folk here will be able to point me at an alternative to R or D-limonene which are apparently the liquids for dissolving HIPS (High Impact Poly Styrene) when using it as a support material.

Buying it here in France looks non trivial as is the price. Added to that, the web seems to think it is not very pleasant to work with.

I have printed an ABS model with HIPS support under the impression that it was easy to dissolve with readily available chemicals, but I am so far sadly disappointed..

Simon
30 August 2019 at 07:49 #426557
DC31k
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@dc31k
I am not a chemist but…

… is there something different about HIPS that makes standard polystyrene solvents unsuitable? Or are most polystyrene solvents also ABS solvents?

The Wiki page for limonene says it is used in paint strippers (I think one US one is Citristrip). This page might be a guide to alternative sources.

Do some experiments. Put some strands of HIPS and ABS into a few glass jars and fill with solvent of your choice. Come back next morning and see what remains.
30 August 2019 at 10:44 #426577
Michael Cox 1
Participant
@michaelcox1
Simon,

ABS (acrylonitrile butadiene styrene polymer) and HIPS (high impact polystyrene) are chemically very similar and they are usually softened and dissolved by the same solvents. Both, for example dissolve readily in acetone and MEK (methyl ethyl ketone).

Where did the information come from that limonene is a selective solvent for HIPS?

Mike
30 August 2019 at 10:55 #426579
Brian G
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@briang
Having used it to weld ABS and Polystyrene MEK (butanone) comes to mind but that will also attack the ABS although to a lesser extent than the polystyrene. From what I have read of limonene, that seems far more pleasant to use than MEK, unless of course you have an allergy to it.

You might be able to find degreasers containing limonene by looking for a high enough concentration of "orange terpenes" in the ingredients. Otherwise I notice that Reprapworld will despatch limonene from the Netherlands to France.

Brian
30 August 2019 at 17:45 #426626
simondavies3
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@simondavies3
Hi,

@ Mike, the information that limonene is a selective solvent for HIPS seems to form part of the supporting documentation for every supplier of filament, e.g. matterhackers and simplify3d

" When being used as a support material, HIPS can be dissolved in d-Limonene, leaving your print free of any markings caused by support removal. "

I am no chemist but I am aware that the two are very similar, hence the search for something that selectively attacks the HIPS.

@ Brian, thanks for the information, I also saw (in a US reference) a suggestion that turpentine could be used – the real stuff, rather than the commonly available substitute.

Thanks for the reference to reprapworld, that may well help!

Simon
30 August 2019 at 18:39 #426632
Steve F
Participant
@stevef
Hi

I have an Ender3 & CEL Robox. On the CEL support website there used to be a chart showing the best compatible and support materials. I cant find it at the moment but…….i have found this

High Impact Polystyrene – a simple thermoplastic which is frequently used as dissolvable support material as it bonds well to most plastics and can be dissolved with Limonine. This works well with colourFabb's XT PETG and nGen, PLA and Nylon. ABS is not recommended as Limonine can discolor and distort ABS.

I think the chart advised water soluble filament for ABS support. Be carefull as it is highly affected by moisture and the filament swells up and gets stuck.

regards

Steve
31 August 2019 at 17:10 #426836
Michael Cox 1
Participant
@michaelcox1
Simon,

Thanks for the information about the solubility of HIPS in limonene. I am chemist but had never come across this titbit of information.

Chemically limonene and turpentine are both terpenes so it could be a good idea to try the latter as it should be more readily available.

Mike

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2 September 2019 at 22:10 #427161
simondavies3
Participant
@simondavies3
Mike,

Thanks for the professional view, I will try and hunt down some turpentine in our local DIY store and see what happens.

@Steve, everything I have read about support structures suggests that PVA water soluble filament should be used with PLA and associated filaments due to their mutual compatibility and similar melting points. ABS being much hotter to melt is also apparently not very compatible with PVA – they don't stick to each other I believe – that is why HIPS is proposed as the 'soluble' support.

Currently given up on both since I can't make them work with the intricate print I am trying to do….

Many thanks to all for your input and wisdom.
Simon
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