‘What LatheXXXXX sorry 3D Printer should I buy’

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‘What LatheXXXXX sorry 3D Printer should I buy’

Home Forums 3D Printers and 3D Printing ‘What LatheXXXXX sorry 3D Printer should I buy’

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  • #323149
    Iain Downs
    Participant
      @iaindowns78295

      I'm not sure anyone's yet asked this of a 3D printer in this forum and I'm sure I'll got loads of conflicting and strongly felt advice.

      I will however at least try and say what I want it to do.

      Erm, mainly because it's a big birthday coming up and I need to have SOMETHING I can ask for!

      Seriously, I don't have any specific projects right now and I guess it won't get used a lot, but I do have some things in mind.

      In the short term I can see myself printing cases, gears, mounts and similar. Moderate strength, reasonable resolution. 50 microns (2 thou) is probably better than I can machine to so why would I want more? – Even 4 thou… However, I would like to do some things with a good finish.

      Later I'd be interested in looking at printing lost wax casting models. I believe that this can be done, though I've not seen much about it. This is probably a good year off before I start playing with that, but who knows?

      For size the I'd probably want an 8 inch cube capacity, but in truth 6 inches cube would probably do.

      I'm more than happy to assemble it from a kit, especially if it will save me some dosh, but I would prefer something which has a reasonably level of professionalism and thence not too many missing parts of fettling to make it work.

      I'm comfortable with the computing side, but prefer windows.to linux. I can run it from an oldish laptop if need be (with slicing and design on a modern PC).

      I don't see much point in a mutli-coloured machine. I have no artistic skills.

      Price? Probably topping out at around £300

      Or should I wait a year and buy the same bit of kit for forty quid? The prices appear to have dropped through the floor in the last couple of years!

      Iain

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      #31547
      Iain Downs
      Participant
        @iaindowns78295

        Is there an easy answer?

        #323158
        Neil Wyatt
        Moderator
          @neilwyatt

          My Prusa i3 kit cost just under £300 from Factory3D. More expensive than cheap kits, but some useful improvements (better PSU, steppers and some other bits, reliable build manual, pre-programmed controller, UK backup who answer your emails questions!)

          It has 8x8x8" build volume.

          0.001" layer print:

          1 thou print.jpg

          Lost PLA:

          dscn8981.jpg

          But bear in mind any 3D printer needs some TLC like replacing nozzles, thermistors and keeping the wiring from flexing to much!

          <edit> and it worked first time!

          Edited By Neil Wyatt on 23/10/2017 22:06:26

          #323202
          Paul Lousick
          Participant
            @paullousick59116

            I have a Geeetec Prusa I3 X and am very happy with it. Just don't get enough time to play with it.

            The latest is a multi head version but a dual head version is available using 2 different filements. You could use 2 colours but it also alows you to use water soluble filement for supporting overhangs and simply wash them away after printing.

            Paul.

            #323207
            Journeyman
            Participant
              @journeyman

              I'll second the Factory 3D printer. I am still learning how mine works but it is a good kit with nothing missing. It is about half the price of a genuine Prusa i3 kit. There are a stack of much cheaper kits available from Amazon most of which feature an plastic frame. The plastic frame versions are reported to be a bit wobbly but I have no first hand knowledge.

              These printers do not require a computer connection and the recommendation is to print direct from an SD card. You will of course need the computer for file preparation. I use Alibre to draw and produce STL files and then Cura 2.7 to slice into g-code for printing. It is worth noting that these printers are NOT plug and play consumer ready units, you will need to prod, poke and tweak things to get good prints. That said some of bits I have made in PLA and PETG are very good (I have also produced a good deal of waste plastic!).

              I wrote up the kit build on my website, have a look ***HERE*** for details.

              John

              #323223
              SillyOldDuffer
              Moderator
                @sillyoldduffer
                #323278
                Roderick Jenkins
                Participant
                  @roderickjenkins93242

                  Has anybody managed to buy a printer from Factory 3D recently? Every time I look they are out of stock.

                  Rod

                  #323295
                  Colin LLoyd
                  Participant
                    @colinlloyd53450

                    I also have a Geeteech Prusa i3 Pro B printer and am very pleased with it for the price. The build from kit was very easy as there is a whole suite of videos at their website. The build should be no problem for people subscribing to this forum. I bought extra printing head assemblies (Heater/stepper motor unit – so that I could use more than 1 type of filament easily. I use OpenSCAD (as I'm an open-source person but there is a version for Windows and Mac) within Linux as my preferred design application. OpenSCAD, as a constructive geometry and extrusion program, rather than an artistic program, is geared towards creating machine parts with defined dimensions and shapes, unlike applications like Blender or Inkscape OpenSCAD output files in .STL format then go straight into the Repetier Host application on a dedicated Windows 7 laptop as I haven't got Repetier Host to work in Linux yet THere is also a Mac version as well). The alternative is to write the STL file to microSD card and insert that into the Geeetech controller directly. All 3D printing at this price/size level takes a long time. The ventilated cover box for a LED voltage supply unit shown (body + Lid) is 80mm x 60mm x 25mm and took nearly 2 hours total time.led supply box.jpg

                    #323324
                    Iain Downs
                    Participant
                      @iaindowns78295

                      Thanks for the input and advice.

                      I'm interested in the idea of soluble filament for complex shapes. The Geetech one, though seems to have a maximum resolution of 0.1mm rather than 0.025 which would be attractive.

                      I take it that the dual head version is this one ? £311 vs £279 – £32 quid for dual head seems reasonable.

                      I must say that the Geetech looks more rigid than the Factory3D one.

                      The buy now button on factory 3d leads to this on ebay

                      I like the bridge, but I don't think the printer would fit in my shed…

                      I tend to use OnShape for my design scribblings, which I would expect would export something I could put into a slicing program.

                      Iain

                      #323334
                      Roderick Jenkins
                      Participant
                        @roderickjenkins93242

                        Just managed to catch the last one from 3D Factory smiley

                        Rod

                        #323342
                        Russell Eberhardt
                        Participant
                          @russelleberhardt48058
                          Posted by Colin LLoyd on 24/10/2017 17:13:21:

                          I also have a Geeteech Prusa i3 Pro B printer and am very pleased with it for the price.

                          <snip> then go straight into the Repetier Host application on a dedicated Windows 7 laptop as I haven't got Repetier Host to work in Linux yet

                          I built the same kit a year ago and am also pleased with it.

                          What flavour of Linux are you using? I have Repetier Host running on Linux Mint on two computers and had no problem installing it following the instructions here

                          Russell

                          #323343
                          Russ B
                          Participant
                            @russb

                            I have a CEL Robox – the reviews just don't do it justice.

                            It comes with proprietary software "Automaker" which is ultra ultra polished – smooth as a babies bum and super easy and intuitive to use. The interface is so simple its basically fool proof but behind it, it is just as configurable as any 3D printer and uses standard slicers to write the machine instruction which are a modified form of gcode (Cura is the default slicer). This software is just a simple installation, no setup required – take the printer out ofthe box, install the software (before you….) plug in the printer, load the fillament (poke it in a hole, and it detects it, and takes it off you, and feeds itself) – and then find a 3D model, and press print – wait, enjoy.

                            It also uses proprietary fillament spools, which come with the material data written on it (print speed, temps, bed temps, layer cooldown, everything – absolutely everything) – HOWEVER it's totally open, you can use whatever material you like, and Automaker even includes a module that lets you write and re-write the spools EEPROM and they give you their complete library of material print properties which they've researched and fine tuned.

                            The bed doesn't require any sort of preparation, you don't even have to clean it (although I give it a wipe with alcohol between ABS prints as it leaves a residue), parts stick first time, every time, I've only ever had 1 or 2 parts come unstuck. This applies to PLA, ABS, Polycabonate, all sorts.

                            The print heads are quick release, dual nozzle units with needle valves to control flow. The heads are either "quick fill" or "Dual Material" the quick fill has a fine 0.3 nozzle, and a wide 0.8mm, it does the outer detail in 0.3, and then quickly fills out the inner with the big 0.8 – saving time, which is the biggest enemy – a single large part can take a day or more, easily!!!

                            The hot end can hit 240c in just 1 minute from cold, and the heated bed will hit 130 in 4 minutes – this is roughly 1/3rd of the time of anything else ive seen. Further more, the nozzle will reach 280c max, and the bed will hit 150c which would actually melt most parts back down – however, its future proof!

                            Print quality exceeds that of the £30,000 professional solutions.

                            It's a very, very, very neat piece of kit – and the customer support is unbelievable, UK born machine, UK based customer support – I have a pre-production beta 3+ years old and it's just about to go back for a standard £100 full service, which will include any and all updates – even though it doesn't need anything it will get an new updated extruder and other tweaks and enhancements, plus anything it needs.

                            I could keep going on, if it exploded into a thousand pieces tomorrow – I'd go straight out, and buy another!

                            Edited By Russ B on 24/10/2017 20:52:34

                            #323345
                            Russ B
                            Participant
                              @russb

                              But bear in mind any 3D printer needs some TLC like replacing nozzles, thermistors and keeping the wiring from flexing to much!

                              disagree strongly ^ see above……. 3 years old, pre-production unit.

                              There is one catch however, I do own 2 print heads (it came with one, I bought a spare) – the early models had issues with their needle valve system, which has now been resolved with a completely new head (both of mine have been replaced for the brand new version, free of charge when they eventually failed)

                              I still keep 2, just in case I need to send one back for servicing (all free under warranty, I just pay postage to them, although they do offer to refund it!)

                              I've not had the version 2 fail yet, they're about a year old now and my spare is still brand new in the box.

                               

                              To summarise, zero time needed tweaking settings, installing or software, writing or messing with firmware, zero bed cleaning or levelling routines etc etc…. its basically, just like a paper printer, install the software, install the "ink" and press print, it will lock the door… sit and wait

                              Edited By Russ B on 24/10/2017 20:55:13

                              #323346
                              Neil Wyatt
                              Moderator
                                @neilwyatt

                                Anyone wanting an improved spool holder for their Prusa i3 can download my tried and tested set of STLs here.

                                You will also need four 608 bearings (cheap as chips) and a pair of 110mm coach bolts.

                                You can get the bearings three at a time in cheap fidget spinners!

                                Edited By Neil Wyatt on 25/10/2017 11:58:37

                                #323347
                                Iain Downs
                                Participant
                                  @iaindowns78295

                                  Hi, Russ.

                                  It looks like a good piece of kit, but the cheapest one (from what I can see) is outside my Birthday Budget – at around 800 quid.

                                  Iain

                                  #323348
                                  Russ B
                                  Participant
                                    @russb

                                    Yes…. they're quite a few quid, but better than an Ultimaker or the likes (which are £3k upwards!)

                                    If you just want to 3D print very accurate models, without needing any skill or knowledge of 3D printing or computers, it's basically ideal, quick, reliable, easy – and if you want to tweak it, go for it, it's completely configurable via "expert" tick box in settings which opens up a wealth of menus and settings if you feel like killing a few hours.

                                    I still have an i3 cheeky

                                    #323409
                                    Journeyman
                                    Participant
                                      @journeyman
                                      Posted by Neil Wyatt on 24/10/2017 20:52:49:

                                      Anyone wanting an improved spool holder for their Prusa i3 can download my tried and tested set of STLs here.

                                      You will also need four 608 bearings (cheap as chips) and a pair of 110mm coach bolts.

                                      You can get the bearings three at a time in cheap fidget spinners!

                                      My Factory 3D came with a similar spool holder, no rollers just bearings that the rim of the spool runs on. Very easy turning but if the filament jams it is possible for the tension to build up and pull the drum off. Also if you are a bit clumsy like me it is possible to knock the reel of filament off, fortunately I managed to catch it before it hit anything important. I added an additional side support with a rod through the centre of the spool to catch the odd rogue spool!

                                      John

                                      #323422
                                      Journeyman
                                      Participant
                                        @journeyman

                                        Thought I had better add a photo to explain the above!

                                        spoolholder.jpg

                                        I added the orange filament guide as I found the roll of PETG I have is very prone to the filament falling off the edge of the reel, it seems to be a lot springier than PLA. The guide helps to keep the filament in line with the reel even if the print head is well over to one side.

                                        #323428
                                        Neil Wyatt
                                        Moderator
                                          @neilwyatt

                                          I see yours has both the new display box and filament holder. And a different PSU!

                                          There are two holes in the bottom of my supports that you can either use to fit a guide using a pair of M3 screws OR poke a loop of 1/16 TIG rod (or similar) into for a filament guide.

                                          #323433
                                          Colin LLoyd
                                          Participant
                                            @colinlloyd53450
                                            Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 24/10/2017 20:41:42:

                                            Posted by Colin LLoyd on 24/10/2017 17:13:21:

                                            I also have a Geeteech Prusa i3 Pro B printer and am very pleased with it for the price.

                                            <snip> then go straight into the Repetier Host application on a dedicated Windows 7 laptop as I haven't got Repetier Host to work in Linux yet

                                            I built the same kit a year ago and am also pleased with it.

                                            What flavour of Linux are you using? I have Repetier Host running on Linux Mint on two computers and had no problem installing it following the instructions here

                                            Russell

                                            Hi Russell, I'm running Mageia 5 64-bit. To be fair, I didn't try very hard as I had a spare laptop sitting around and thought I'd dedicate that to controlling the 3D printer. Subsequently I've found that the printing often comes to a halt if there are more than one USB device plugged into the laptop – typically the USB to the printer and a Memory stick with the STL file on it. But I think this is a MIcrosoft (oh how I hate to say that word) problem where it merrily and randomly changes the USB Communication number. But knowing that – I just copy the STL file to the desktop and remove the memory stick – then no problem. Yes I could convert the laptop to Linux – but I still have some programs that only run on Windows.

                                            #323434
                                            Journeyman
                                            Participant
                                              @journeyman

                                              Neil, I think it is probably the same PSU it's just that I drilled three holes and secured it to the frame as I thought it looked neater, rather than have it just loose on the worktop. You can't see them in the picture but I added diagonal braces to the rear of the frame. I am currently working on a cunning plan to stop the print head moving from side to side in its frame and improve access to the hot end, will report back in due course (bits on route from China).

                                              John

                                              Edited By Journeyman on 25/10/2017 11:09:49

                                              #323438
                                              Colin LLoyd
                                              Participant
                                                @colinlloyd53450

                                                Thought I'd add my pennyworth to the Prusa i3 filament support options. Here's mine – I £D printed a supply plate and stuck that to the top of the Controller Unit. Then drilled 2 holes in the side plates and used a length of polypipe to support up to 3 different reels of filament across the back. It's not quite so obstructive to my computer monitors behind and probably a little bit more stable – although that wasn't a design consideration. You might also notice that I have put the heater/stepper motor power and control wires onto plugs/sockets so that I can easily switch between different units. The heater power unit has large XT-60 plug/socket pair to take the higher power. I use these on my quadcopter large LI-ON batteries.

                                                A little note to Iain Downs – I didn't buy the dual head unit – just 2 separate head units which I swap over.

                                                geeetech-filament guide.jpg

                                                #323443
                                                Colin LLoyd
                                                Participant
                                                  @colinlloyd53450

                                                  Another note to Iain Downs – the Geetech Prusa i3 along with all the other clones of the Prusa 3D printer (it is an open-source design) comes with brass nozzles. I recommend you change those for stainless steel ones – they are so much better – and I use 0.4mm nozzles because I'm not so much interested in final finish as in getting quick (relative) items that I can use – you can always polish up the finish afterwards.

                                                  Also many of the failures in 3D printing are due to poor initial design rather than any fault of the printer. If you look at my photo of my LED power supply box above – you will see that the box side ventilation holes have rounded tops – this was not to make it look Gothic – but bridging gaps is a problem with hot filament and this is one way to overcome this problem. Just saying that you need to put a lot of effort into correct design if you wish to avoid just dumping the printer because it fails to produce what you want.

                                                  Finally – one of the things I like about 3D printers is how relaxing they are – just sitting watching this "thing" form before your very eyes is somehow better than yoga – at least for the first 10 minutes.

                                                  #323450
                                                  Neil Wyatt
                                                  Moderator
                                                    @neilwyatt
                                                    Posted by Journeyman on 25/10/2017 10:52:37:

                                                    Neil, I think it is probably the same PSU it's just that I drilled three holes and secured it to the frame as I thought it looked neater, rather than have it just loose on the worktop. You can't see them in the picture but I added diagonal braces to the rear of the frame. I am currently working on a cunning plan to stop the print head moving from side to side in its frame and improve access to the hot end, will report back in due course (bits on route from China).

                                                    John

                                                    Edited By Journeyman on 25/10/2017 11:09:49

                                                    Mine has a big ATX psu.

                                                    To stop the print head movement I put a bit of card between stepper and frame before tightening up I will add an M5 hole to the frame for a securing screw, one day…

                                                    I've updated the pic to show the guide loop.

                                                    #323517
                                                    Iain Downs
                                                    Participant
                                                      @iaindowns78295

                                                      Thanks all.

                                                      On the dual head thing, the main attraction (to me) appears to be to have load bearing and soluble filament so you can easily provide support (soluble) which can be dissolved away after.

                                                      Coilin – would that work with the 2 head approach – without a lot of manual processing? If not what benefits does the second head give?

                                                      Interestingly, one conclusion I've come to about what machines you buy (mill, lathe) – old or new, is that if you buy old you need to refurbish it, if you buy new you need to tune it up.

                                                      It seems that's true in spades for 3D printers. Unless, I suppose you spend much more (the equivalent of buying a new 'real' lather).

                                                      So far the affordable options are all Prusa 3D variants. Are there any other realistic options?

                                                      Iain

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