Rod’s Hoglet

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Rod’s Hoglet

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  • #606898
    Roderick Jenkins
    Participant
      @roderickjenkins93242

      Just completed the cylinders as the first stage of my Hoglet build. Of course, I immediately deviated from the drawings and made mine out of FC steel rather than C.I.

      h01.jpg

      h02.jpg

      EN1A is wonderful stuff

      h03.jpg

      They are not quite identical surprise. I touched up the end of the parting tool after cutting the grooves on the first cylinder and because the tapered blade has a smidgen of top rake the grooves are a couple of thou narrower (and the fins correspondingly wider) on the second cylinder.

      Rod

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      #31411
      Roderick Jenkins
      Participant
        @roderickjenkins93242
        #606915
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          Off to a good start Rod, are you going to just do the basic engine or will you include the kick starter?

          #606956
          Roderick Jenkins
          Participant
            @roderickjenkins93242
            Posted by JasonB on 22/07/2022 18:50:55:

            … will you include the kick starter?

            Not sure. I do like the idea of the engine being self contained rather than needing a drill to turn it over. I'll see.

            Rod

            #607928
            Roderick Jenkins
            Participant
              @roderickjenkins93242

              The heads are made from c.i. and I coordinate drilled the hold down holes and left a 20 thou spigot on the head to locate in the cylinder. I've never been much inclined to make jigs and fixtures but, especially with 2 of everything, it seems necessary.

              For drilling the cylinder fins for the hold down studs to pass through it all needs to be located and solidly held.

              h04.jpg

               

              h05.jpg

              The long 3/16" centre drill worked very nicely

              h06.jpg

              The heads need holes drilled and milled at various angles so I made this fixture today. The aluminium square is Loctited and screwed to a 16mm steel spigot that fits in the ER25 collet block. The square is centered on the spigot and has a locating recess for the head so, in theory, I can put all the holes in the right place using the DRO in the mill, tilting the collet block in the vice as necessary.

              Rod

              Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 30/07/2022 20:42:24

              #608736
              GrahamS
              Participant
                @grahams

                Good work Rod, looks spot on.

                I am not too far behind you with my Hoglet build , I am finishing up the connecting rods then onto assembling the crankshaft then the bottom end is complete.

                Like a lot of posts I see, I am not happy with the design method of a 'grab' fit of the crank webs to the shaft. I am planning using grub screws between the crank pin and webs to lock them, but cant decide on a method for the crank shafts to webs as after locking the pin there is no access. As a last resort I could just loctite them I guess, but not happy with this – Can I ask how did you do this assembly? Thanks

                #608910
                Roderick Jenkins
                Participant
                  @roderickjenkins93242

                  Hi Graham,

                  You are actually well ahead of me – I started withe the cylinders and am currently wrestling with the heads. I started with material I had in stock while waiting for the other stuff to be delivered.

                  I share your concerns but am a great believer in Loctite. My Wyvern crankshaft is fabricated only with the aid of Loctite 603 and has stood the test of time. Only yesterday I was disassembling a 1/2" PGMS bar in a 1/2" reamed hole fastened with Loctite and it took a lot of heat and a lot of hammering.

                  All the best,

                  Rod

                  #610095
                  GrahamS
                  Participant
                    @grahams

                    This is where I am up to , with the bottom end complete except for the camshaft which I have been dreading.

                    The length of 3/8 bar poking through both crankwebs is an alignment aid I have built in , given I had little confidence in the pinch method of holding it all together while I pinned things together.

                    One of the crank pins was pinned first , followed by both crankshaft pieces. Then with the alignment bar in place, the other side of the crankpin was pinned. The pins are 3mm grub screws so removeable. When I am happy with it I will go back and loctite as well as pin. So far it all runs sweet so happy. Another advantage of this alignment bar is I can check everything is as it should be at any time , as in the picture the alignment bar passes through after assembly.

                    A view of the con rods in place before crankshaft assembly.

                    In this one you can see I extended the split in the crankweb to try and get more grip , to no avail

                    Please keep posting pictures of your build, thanks!

                    #610453
                    Roderick Jenkins
                    Participant
                      @roderickjenkins93242

                      Nice work Graham.

                      I guess it might be useful to know what the Hoglet looks like. Here's a sketch taken from the Model Engine Builder article. It can bee seen why the inlets are set at half the V angle. The drawings are available in MEB issues 10 and 11 and available by PDF download for a modest fee.

                      h00.jpg

                      I generally us an ER25 collet holder in my mill but in this case headroom is rather too tight so I used my Myford collets which fit the nose on the mill spindle. Once the DRO was zeroed in on the centre of the head I could use various stub drlls to make the required holes according to the drawing

                      h07.jpg

                      The inlet and exhaust ports were drilled in the lying down mode and the relief for the push rods were milled with a ball ended mill. Trying to mill these reliefs with an end mill in the vertical mode did not go well, as evidenced by the gouges on the build plate – that was a scrapper sad

                      h08.jpg

                      h09.jpg

                      Inlet and exhaust ports are modified by counter-boring at the half V angle

                      h10.jpg

                      Probably my fault but I could not find enough information on the drawing to work out where to start the angled counter-bore to intersect the inlet and exhaust holes so had to do some sketching to get a measurement to put the cutter in the right place

                      h10a.jpg

                      In this case, my 7/16" milling cutter happens to be on a 2MT shank which was a happy accident

                      h11.jpg

                      The inlet has a 90 degree chamfer on the transition to the through hole so I had to make a D bit cutter out of silver steel

                      h12.jpg

                      Quite pleased with the result

                      h13.jpg

                      The spark plug hole is 10x1mm (M fine) drilled at 30 degrees. However it needs to be counter-bored 7/8" for tube spanner access. I usually use an Arrand boring head for this sort of thing but the bottom of the counter-bore needs to be flat for the spark plug to seat. So I dug out my Dore boring and facing head which I bought on ebay. I didn't have much hope for using the magnetic stand to hold the striker arm but in fact it worked very well

                      h14.jpg

                      h15.jpg

                      I returned the heads to the lathe to cut the fins. For the first time in the 10 plus years since I have had a VFD control on the Myford I had to use back gear. 50rpm was a nice comfortable speed with plenty of torque

                      h16.jpg

                      That all got a bit tense towards the end but they turned out OK. I hope you find this mildly diverting.

                      Rod

                      #610459
                      Howard Lewis
                      Participant
                        @howardlewis46836

                        Splendid work Rod!

                        Should be quite an item when completed.

                        Just wish that I had your patience and skill!

                        Howard

                        #610460
                        JasonB
                        Moderator
                          @jasonb

                          Looking good Rod, I think the 0.700" dimension is where the ctr line of the angled hole goes but it's a while since I did mine.

                          #611259
                          Roderick Jenkins
                          Participant
                            @roderickjenkins93242

                            The crankcase is made from 4 bits of 1/4" ally plate. Front and back machined together, drilled and reamed for the crankshaft bushes

                            h17.jpg

                            I made a bush from 1/2" PGMS to keep the plates aligned for further work

                            h18.jpg

                            Milling the 21 degree angles for the cylinder seats (after cutting off most of the waste on the Lidl bandsaw)

                            h19.jpg

                            Then hacking out the profile

                            h20.jpg

                            and finishing with a 6mm slot drill and a 6mm ball end mill

                            h21.jpg

                            The hole for the cylinder seat was step drilled in the pillar drill to 1" then transferred to the mill to use the boring head for final sizing

                            h22.jpg

                            Then drilling the various holes

                            h23.jpg

                            Tapping the holes on the side plates using the GHT pillar tool

                            h24.jpg

                            I'm trying now to get a good join at the "ridge" so the side plates were fastened at the correct spacing to a base plate and the crankcase top plate angle machined in situ. With a bit of dead reckoning and a couple of swaps from side to side I was happy with the result

                            h25.jpg

                            Cutting the "eaves" in situ as well

                            h26.jpg

                            It's OK

                            h27.jpg

                            More holes to make in the crankcase front for the cam housing and cam shaft. The spacing from the crankshaft to the camshaft will be slightly altered from the drawing because I will be using 0.8M gears instead of 32DP.

                            Rod

                            #611264
                            Craig Brown
                            Participant
                              @craigbrown60096
                              Posted by Roderick Jenkins on 25/08/2022 23:21:44:

                              It's OK

                              h27.jpg

                              Looks pretty seamless too me. If this is just OK then I look forward to a part you are very pleased with.

                              Thanks for the pictures and details, enjoying the build.

                              #611398
                              GrahamS
                              Participant
                                @grahams

                                Looks excellent Rod, I will find the pictures for machining the heads very useful !

                                Looks like you are rapidly catching me up !

                                Having done everything else in the bottom end , I am going to try a set up for the cam shaft next , on scrap first as I am confident there will be a few practice runs.

                                #611401
                                JasonB
                                Moderator
                                  @jasonb

                                  A couple of pics of machining the cam for mine if it's useful

                                  imag1507.jpg

                                  imag1508.jpg

                                  imag1509.jpg

                                  imag1510.jpg

                                  #611587
                                  GrahamS
                                  Participant
                                    @grahams

                                    Thanks for the pics Jason, that is a help. I think I just need to man up and make a start !

                                    My main question is about the angular relationship between the cams, and which one is which !

                                    Referring to the Camshaft Assembly drawing ( side on view ) and the end on view with the separation angles, how do you link the two together?

                                    Assuming the cam furthest from the cam gear is the first one to be machined ( the orientation you used to machine with the long part of the camshaft in the collet ) , is the next one at 101 degrees further on or 113 or 214 ?

                                    Mu guess is the first one is at roughly 8 o clock on the drawing , the large middle one at 12 o clock and the last one at about 4 o clock?

                                    Hope that makes sense and thanks

                                    #611595
                                    Roderick Jenkins
                                    Participant
                                      @roderickjenkins93242

                                      My interpretation is that, since the drawing is third angle projection, the cam angle view is from the left side so the first cam is the 8 o'clock, the middle is 12 o'clock and the last is 4 o'clock. However, Jason has held his blank by the long end so the order of machining is reversed – 4 then 12 then 8.

                                      I'm still having an internal debate as to whether to make the cams as described in MEB or use CamCalc. Since the base circle has to be machined incrementally anyway I'm not sure whether the MEB method saves much time since the nose radius has to be finished by hand. I have bought issue #7 of MEB so I have been tempted to try this method.

                                      Rod

                                      #611956
                                      Roderick Jenkins
                                      Participant
                                        @roderickjenkins93242

                                        A digression on cams.

                                        I've been slightly sceptical of the accuracy of the method that Randall Cox uses(and never really understood) to produce the cams (as shown in Jason's pictures) so I thought I would have a look at the process and compare it with the Manual Numerical Control method that is CamCalc. However, I must emphasise that the Cox method clearly works because there are many examples of running Hoglets.

                                        I drew the Cox process (I loved my Spirograph when I was a kid). The large circles are the path of the cutter as it moves around the blank in 5 degree steps with the flank radius offset of 0.4" and a lift of 0.065"

                                         

                                        cam generation sketch.jpg

                                        A couple of points first: For a truly Harmonic cam the transitions between the base circle and the flank circle must share a radius, as must the transition between the flank circle and the nose circle. Although not given as a parameter in the Hoglet drawings, the CAD sketch shows that the action angle of the cam (the transition from base to flank) is 135 degrees. The nose circle is drawn as a tan, tan, tan circle to the the 2 flanks and the maximum lift line.

                                        Using these parameters in CamCalc I get this:

                                        camcalc version.jpg

                                        The nose radius from CamCalc is a little larger than the Cox method shows (which is constructed by filing until it looks right). In CamCalc a sharper nose would be given by reducing the flank radius slightly.

                                        The CamCalc method always seems a little laborious (not to say tedious) – take a cut, wind the handle,move the cutter height, take a cut, wind the handle, move the cutter height, take a cut… but the Cox method is no different really. I would use a 3 degree increment for this size of cam and Cox uses 5 degrees.

                                        Conclusions: I like the Cox method, it has an elegant simplicity that does not require following a list of numbers. It is not quite as accurate as CamCalc in the nose area but for the sort of engines we make this is immaterial. For this particular engine there is a down side and that is that the cams must be machined in the vertical mode with the ensuing problems of rigidity with an interrupted flycut. With CamCalc the cam blank would be horizontal and the machining is a light cut with an end mill for each increment of rotation and no risk of interference from the boring bar on the subsequent cams.

                                        I shall be using the Cox method for my Hoglet 'cause it's good enough and a different challenge and I like that.

                                        Rod

                                         

                                        Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 01/09/2022 11:49:46

                                        #611958
                                        JasonB
                                        Moderator
                                          @jasonb

                                          The Cox method also needs less blending of the facets than the CC as the fact they are cut to a large radius leaves a smoother finish.

                                          Rod are you not tempted to do it on the CNC these days, I think the cut time for the last cam I did was about 70seconds which is far less than CamCalc . No need for final hand finishing and you can blend whatever radii you like for the nose.

                                          You would probably have to use a tee slot or woodruff cutter to do the Hoglet one as a single part. Could even cut it in three pieces and loctite them onto the silversteel shaft, should be enough area for loctite if you did the outer cams integral with the spacers and then just the central longer one to length then they could be done with say a 6mm milling cutter.

                                          #611963
                                          Roderick Jenkins
                                          Participant
                                            @roderickjenkins93242
                                            Posted by JasonB on 01/09/2022 12:05:39:

                                            The Cox method also needs less blending of the facets than the CC as the fact they are cut to a large radius leaves a smoother finish.

                                            Rod are you not tempted to do it on the CNC these days…

                                            Yes. Sadly, I dont think my Sherline mill with its maximum collet size of 1/4" is rigid enough to make the cam shaft in vertical mode with a woodruff cutter hanging 1 1/2" out of the chuck. If only Fusion let us have a 4th axis sad

                                            I had thought about individual cams and cutting the gap between them so that they interlock at the correct orientation. But, the Cox method is new to me so it's always nice to try something novel.

                                            Cheers

                                            Rod

                                            PS: I think the Cox method produces a smoother facet because the cutter has a smaller radius than CamCalc which is a straight line cut and therefore of infinite radius smiley

                                            Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 01/09/2022 13:07:59

                                            #611981
                                            Howard Lewis
                                            Participant
                                              @howardlewis46836

                                              Whichever method is used the finished product looks to a beautiful piece of machining..

                                              Just wish that I had your knowledge and skills.

                                              Howard

                                              #612341
                                              Roderick Jenkins
                                              Participant
                                                @roderickjenkins93242

                                                One thing I should mention is that I have enjoyed Andrew Whales' Hoglet videos on YouTube – very useful for envisioning the bits even if we choose different methods according to the kit we have available.

                                                The cam housing is a complicated bit of carving

                                                h28.jpg

                                                Need to bring out the Dore facer again to cut the space for the cam gear

                                                h29.jpg

                                                The top of the housing is at 25 degrees and the cam follower holes at 23 and 29 degrees. The housing sits on a jig made from 2 bits of steel out of the oddments drawer Loctited together. I have marked every ten holes (1 degree) on the dividing plate with a Sharpie to help keep track of the rotation

                                                h30.jpg

                                                Drilled 6mm and reamed 1/4". Fortuitously, the centre on my dividing head tailstock is 1/2", the same diamter as the relief for the cams to rotate in so I was able to provide a bit of support

                                                h31.jpg

                                                The housing cover was squared up

                                                h32.jpg

                                                Held by the cover to hack out some more swarf

                                                h33.jpg

                                                Then trimmed

                                                h34.jpg

                                                Forgot to take pictures of drilling and reaming the cam shaft hole and rounding the profile – kept getting distracted by the sounds of Merlin engines flying round the house

                                                When I made the Crankcase front plate I drilled the smaller hole according to the drawing, forgetting that I needed to enlarge the dimension by 9 thou to cope with the slightly larger diameter gear caused by using a 0.8M rather than 32DP. So, squared it up

                                                h35.jpg

                                                and re-centred

                                                h36.jpg

                                                then drilled the holes and reamed in the correct (I hope) places

                                                 

                                                h37.jpg

                                                Just one more cosmetic oversight to trim

                                                h38.jpg

                                                Phew. The cam shaft and crankshaft holes are oversized for bearings to be pressed in but they seem to line up, which is nice.

                                                h39.jpg

                                                Thanks for looking in.

                                                Rod

                                                Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 04/09/2022 16:47:52

                                                #612598
                                                Roderick Jenkins
                                                Participant
                                                  @roderickjenkins93242

                                                  I think this is my favourite bit, making the gears

                                                  2 blanks required for 40T and 20T gears

                                                  h40.jpg

                                                  Something weird happened which I have not seen before. As I parted off the blank with the rear tool it bounced on the cross slide and jammed between the tool and the holder. Bummer-that's for the scrap pile

                                                  h41.jpg

                                                  Both blanks were faced to thickness. This is a trick I got from Editor Neil's "3D Printing for Model Engineers". It really works, the faces are parallel to 1/2 thou

                                                  h42.jpg

                                                  I have learned through bitter experience that you cannot trust the profile of these Brown and Sharpe style cutters to be central to the thickness. I have not come up with a better method than eyeballing

                                                  h43.jpg

                                                  Cutter running at 250rpm and a full depth cut. Each tooth is 1 1/2 turns for the 40 and 3 turns of the dividing head for the 20

                                                  h44.jpg

                                                  Very satisfying

                                                  h45.jpg

                                                  Rod

                                                  #614408
                                                  Roderick Jenkins
                                                  Participant
                                                    @roderickjenkins93242

                                                    Cams. This is my setup.

                                                    h46.jpg

                                                    For the top cam the table is at it's very lowest extent. A respectable cam set was produced though it was hard work. I try and avoid feeding a cut by raising the table ( I don't have a quill). 2 hours of moving the table up and down was painful on the wrist. Sadly, I got the orientation of the single cams reversed. I found it difficult to get my head around where the peak of the cam is using this method. The interrupted fly cut, together with the flexibility of the whole setup is not very restful either. I prefer CamCalc for the next try- much gentler.

                                                    h47.jpg

                                                    3 degrees (half a turn) between each cut

                                                    h48.jpg

                                                    h49.jpg

                                                    The cams are made fro EN3B and case hardened. I am fortunate to a have a small stock of genuine Kasenit. The ends were covered in Tippex Rapid then the blank heated and dipped in the Kasenit before heating to bright red and quenching in water

                                                    h50.jpg

                                                    The dappled grey is a good sign

                                                    h51.jpg

                                                    A file skidded off nicely. The duff one (upper) and the good one polished with some wet and dry.

                                                    h52.jpg

                                                    Rod

                                                    #614412
                                                    Richard Millington
                                                    Participant
                                                      @richardmillington63972

                                                      A very interesting build.

                                                      I have learned through bitter experience that you cannot trust the profile of these Brown and Sharpe style cutters to be central to the thickness. I have not come up with a better method than eyeballing

                                                      h43.jpg

                                                      Would the old ruler between the pointer and part work?

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