Cosworth V8 1:12 scale

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Cosworth V8 1:12 scale

Home Forums Work In Progress and completed items Cosworth V8 1:12 scale

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  • #504718
    Steve Crow
    Participant
      @stevecrow46066

      A few months ago, I decided to have a go at making a 1:12 scale Cosworth V8 DFV Formula 1 engine.

      It will be a 2-stroke running on air (or CO2?) with a bore of 7.2mm and a stroke of 5mm.

      I want to share my progress so far as I’m sure I will need some advice.

      After making the drawings, the first thing I did was make card models of the main components.

      pre_01.jpg

       

      This helps me visualise things and see if any screws interfere with each other etc.

      card_04.jpg

       

      The block started life as 1” square mild steel bar.

      pre_02.jpg

       

      I sawed of a piece about 3” long and this was clocked in the 4 jaw and eccentric bosses, on the crank centre line, were turned at both ends. This gave me an accurate way of holding it while boring out the cylinders and milling the block to shape. In the picture below, the milling is part done.

      pre_04.jpg

       

      The block, milled to shape. The bores are a bit rough but true. They will have brass liners anyway.

      raw_block_04.jpg

       

      The block was drilled and tapped and the sump blank bolted to it.

      raw_block_02.jpg

       

      The whole assembly was then drilled and bored out as one piece and the bosses removed.

      block_sump_01.jpg

       

      More to follow….

      Steve

      Edited By Steve Crow on 01/11/2020 14:47:22

      Edited By Steve Crow on 01/11/2020 14:48:04

      Edited By Steve Crow on 01/11/2020 14:52:27

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      #31323
      Steve Crow
      Participant
        @stevecrow46066
        #504721
        Brian H
        Participant
          @brianh50089

          Super! Look forward to seeing more.

          Brian

          #504726
          Steve Crow
          Participant
            @stevecrow46066

            The next job was to remove some metal from the inside of the sump and the block to provide clearance for the con rods.

            Here is the block, ready to be milled. Note the miniature brass V-blocks – very handy things. You can see they are numbered. This is to ensure repeatability when using them with a 4-jaw.

            block_02.jpg

            And here they are completed. The block now weighs 60g. The initial square blank weighed 370g. That might not sound a lot of swarf to you guys with big-boy’s lathes, but it made a mess of the kitchen table with my Sherline.

            block_sump_03.jpg

            More soon.

            #504732
            Steve Crow
            Participant
              @stevecrow46066

              I made some endplates from 1/8” mild steel flat bar. These hold flanged bearings for the crankshaft, 4mm at the gearbox end and 3mm at the cam-drive end. There is raised boss on the back of both which are a snug fit into the crankshaft bore to keep thing nice and true.

              end_plates_04.jpg

              The one on the left will house the flywheel and the one on the right, the cam gear train.

              end_plates_05.jpg

              The sump and block were drilled and tapped 12BA to secure the endplates and everything was assembled.

              end_plates_03.jpg

              end_plates_02.jpg

              assembly_01.jpg

              Steve

              #504736
              Steve Crow
              Participant
                @stevecrow46066

                I then fly-cut some steel to size for the cylinder head blanks and drilled and counterbored to suit the block. All in all, I had to tap 30 blind holes to M1.6 in the block. A bit scary.

                assembly_03.jpg

                I also cut to size blanks for the cam carriers. They can just be seen in the background.

                card_02.jpg

                Another shot.

                card_03.jpg

                Steve

                #504741
                Nick Wheeler
                Participant
                  @nickwheeler

                  When I read you started with 1" square bar, I thought you were crazy.

                  I've just pulled a bit out of my stash, and now I know you're crazysmiley

                  It already looks cool. Are you going to fold a monocoque out of foil to mount it in??

                  #504742
                  Steve Crow
                  Participant
                    @stevecrow46066

                    The flat-plane crank is assembled from EN1A webs and 3mm silver steel journals.

                    crank_02.jpg

                     

                    The assembly was a tight friction fit then drilled, countersunk, pinned and riveted. 1mm mild steel pins were peened into the countersink then filed and polished over to render invisible.

                    crank_03.jpg

                     

                    The unwanted journals were then sawn out and the gaps between webs cleaned up on the mill.

                    crank_01.jpg

                    This still needs a bit of cosmetic fettling.

                    Steve

                    Edited By Steve Crow on 01/11/2020 16:23:37

                    Edited By Steve Crow on 01/11/2020 16:34:11

                    #504744
                    Steve Crow
                    Participant
                      @stevecrow46066

                      Here is some of the crank in situ.

                      crank_04.jpg

                      crank_05.jpg

                      crank_06.jpg

                      crank_07.jpg

                      Steve

                      #504747
                      Steve Crow
                      Participant
                        @stevecrow46066
                        Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 01/11/2020 16:21:54:

                        When I read you started with 1" square bar, I thought you were crazy.

                        I've just pulled a bit out of my stash, and now I know you're crazysmiley

                        It already looks cool. Are you going to fold a monocoque out of foil to mount it in??

                        I've actually thought about making a 1:12 English wheel to form beer can aluminium for said monocoque.

                        Has anyone heard of this being done before?

                        #504794
                        Dave Halford
                        Participant
                          @davehalford22513

                          You're 3 main bearings short laugh

                          #504813
                          Steve Crow
                          Participant
                            @stevecrow46066
                            Posted by Dave Halford on 01/11/2020 20:58:29:

                            You're 3 main bearings short laugh

                            I know. I considered a central one but life's too short.

                            #504818
                            Graham Stoppani
                            Participant
                              @grahamstoppani46499

                              When I was a young lad working in a local motorcycle shop I took a phone call from a gentleman who wanted us to collect his son's field bike to sort out the non-running engine. Being an 'expert' I asked if he had checked if the petrol was turned on and if there was a spark – turned out I was talking to Keith Duckworth… Doh!

                              embarrassed

                              #504980
                              Steve Crow
                              Participant
                                @stevecrow46066

                                Here is a drawing of a cross-section through the cylinders. It is sort of colour coded. Grey is EN3B, light blue EN1A, dark blue are screws and silver steel and orange or brown are brass except for the exhaust headers which are copper tube.

                                 

                                section_a_02_print_01.jpg

                                 

                                The air is fed from the two brass vessels (plenums?) in the vee.

                                This a hypothetical cross-section as there are 4 valves per cylinder and the banks are staggered.

                                Edited By Steve Crow on 02/11/2020 19:48:28

                                #505175
                                Steve Crow
                                Participant
                                  @stevecrow46066

                                  Here is another cross-section, this time between the cylinders.

                                  section_b_02_print_01.jpg

                                  When designing this, I had a bit of a headache making sure the screws didn't clash with anything or each other. The problem is, even using the smallest economically available, the screws are grossly over scale.

                                  I'm using M1.6 allen screws with the head turned down to 2.35mm to hold the sump, block, heads and cam carriers together.

                                  12 BA cheesehead screws with the head turned down to 1.95mm for the con rods, exhaust and inlet manifolds and also the cam covers.

                                  I will use either M1.0 or 14 BA cheesehead to secure the cam shaft. I want to find a good quality supply of steel screws first(non-stainless, I'll be blueing them). When I find them, I'll buy the appropriate taps. If anyone has any advice on this, I would be grateful.

                                  Steve

                                  #505186
                                  Mike Poole
                                  Participant
                                    @mikepoole82104

                                    “It will be a 2-stroke running on air (or CO2?) with a bore of 7.2mm and a stroke of 5mm.”

                                    Was this a typo Steve? or am I missing something.

                                    Mike

                                    #505209
                                    Steve Crow
                                    Participant
                                      @stevecrow46066
                                      Posted by Mike Poole on 03/11/2020 19:26:42:

                                      “It will be a 2-stroke running on air (or CO2?) with a bore of 7.2mm and a stroke of 5mm.”

                                      Was this a typo Steve? or am I missing something.

                                      Mike

                                      No typo. By 2 stroke, I meant a simple expansion engine with 2 cycles, in and out.

                                      I suspect I am not using the right terminology.

                                      #505232
                                      DiogenesII
                                      Participant
                                        @diogenesii
                                        Posted by Steve Crow on 03/11/2020 17:53:20:

                                        …I will use either M1.0 or 14 BA cheesehead to secure the cam shaft. I want to find a good quality supply of steel screws first(non-stainless, I'll be blueing them). When I find them, I'll buy the appropriate taps. If anyone has any advice on this, I would be grateful…

                                        Steve

                                        EKP SUPPLIES and BA-BOLTS are two suppliers that list plain steel cheesehead down to 14BA.. ..others might too, those just sprang to mind..

                                        I have and do use EKP, satisfactory fit & finish on the larger BA stuff I've had – I've seen BA-B recommended before, so probably fine as well.. ..there may be others..

                                        #505233
                                        Mike Poole
                                        Participant
                                          @mikepoole82104
                                          Posted by Steve Crow on 03/11/2020 22:43:37:

                                          Posted by Mike Poole on 03/11/2020 19:26:42:

                                          “It will be a 2-stroke running on air (or CO2?) with a bore of 7.2mm and a stroke of 5mm.”

                                          Was this a typo Steve? or am I missing something.

                                          Mike

                                          No typo. By 2 stroke, I meant a simple expansion engine with 2 cycles, in and out.

                                          I suspect I am not using the right terminology.

                                          I have read your description again and realise what you said, I was locked into internal combustion think. It’s looking great so far, it will be nice to see it running when finished.

                                          Mike

                                          #505335
                                          Steve Crow
                                          Participant
                                            @stevecrow46066

                                            EKP SUPPLIES and BA-BOLTS are two suppliers that list plain steel cheesehead down to 14BA.. ..others might too, those just sprang to mind..

                                            I have and do use EKP, satisfactory fit & finish on the larger BA stuff I've had – I've seen BA-B recommended before, so probably fine as well.. ..there may be others..

                                            Thank you, I've just checked them out. It seems that 14BA screws are more easily available than M1 so I'll probably go for that. A finer thread too – M1 is pretty coarse at 0.25 pitch. I can single point thread down too 0.25 pitch on my Sherline lathe but I need at least 60 screws!

                                            14 BA taps are quite pricy though. I might have to redesign a few bits so there are no blind holes, then I can get away with a single taper tap.

                                            All the ones I've seen seem to be around the same price, £15 each so I suspect they are all the same manufacturer. There can't be too many companies making 14 BA taps! Has anybody got any recommendations?

                                            Cheers,

                                            Steve

                                            #505348
                                            David George 1
                                            Participant
                                              @davidgeorge1

                                              Try Tracy Tools they may sponsor you for a couple of taps. If you don't ask you don't get.

                                              David

                                              #505486
                                              Steve Crow
                                              Participant
                                                @stevecrow46066

                                                This is the gear train for the cams. The camshafts rotate counter to the crank. The blue gears (EN1A) are driven or drive and the orange/yellow (brass/nickel silver) ones idle.

                                                section_c_02_print_01.jpg

                                                This is quite a bit simpler than the full-size engine, which has compound gears, but it does resemble it.

                                                The gears are Mod 0.3 as I have a set of involute cutters. It would work in Mod 0.4 or 0.5 as well.

                                                This is part of the build I'm looking forward to most.

                                                Steve

                                                #507669
                                                Steve Crow
                                                Participant
                                                  @stevecrow46066

                                                  Now for the conrods.

                                                  These were cut from 2mm clockmakers brass in strips of 4.

                                                  con_01.jpg

                                                  They were then tapped 12BA.

                                                  con_02.jpg

                                                  I forgot to take photos of the clamping half but they were made the same way.

                                                  They were then separated with a jewellers saw.

                                                  con_03.jpg

                                                  I then screwed the two parts together, blended in the curves and tidied them up a bit. They were then drilled and reamed to 3mm.

                                                  con_04.jpg

                                                  These still need surface finishing.

                                                  Steve

                                                  #507673
                                                  Steve Crow
                                                  Participant
                                                    @stevecrow46066

                                                    Before I went any further, I thought I'd test fit them on the crank.

                                                    con_05.jpg

                                                    A fiddly job attaching these but everything fits and moves nicely with minimum play. The middle one at the front looks like it isn't straight but that's the camera angle.

                                                    con_06.jpg

                                                    I then tried the whole assembly in its bearings in the block.

                                                    con_07.jpg

                                                    The conrods do foul the block in parts but this is because they are no liners or pistons in yet so the rods are rotating more than intended.

                                                    con_08.jpg

                                                    I've got to say that it doesn't look like the bottom end of a racing engine – more like some late Victorian marine engine. The thickness of the conrods is massively overscale. This is a consequence of using the smallest screws I had.

                                                    Even then, I had to turn down the heads to 1.8mm and dome them for clearance.

                                                    This is also the reason why there is only two bearings. There just wasn't space for other journals.

                                                    I'm happy to answer any questions or receive any criticism.

                                                    Anyway, will update as I make more parts.

                                                    Steve

                                                    #507697
                                                    Ady1
                                                    Participant
                                                      @ady1

                                                      Looks great

                                                      With the scale of the work you are doing and the skill level you have reached it looks like you are at the edge of the normal tooling envelope

                                                      Alternatively the watchmaker industry may offer solutions and ideas

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