Making Rings

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Making Rings

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 44 total)
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  • #447920
    Steviegtr
    Participant
      @steviegtr

      Something I had a go at recently. The old 2 shillings & half crowns are a popular ring to use. But are 50%Nickel 50% Zinc. Pre 1920 british silver coins had .925 sterling silver content. So much better to use but expensive to buy. Just bought some Morgan 1881 Silver Dollars to do. They are 90% Silver. I wore the half crown ring for a few days & it did make my fingers go a bit black. Ones made of none precious metal need either a coat of clear laquer of which I have gallons of 2 pack from doing my write off cars & bikes rebuilds. Or maybe some way of anodising. Got stacks of coins to go at. There was an issue of, sort of destroying coins but seems like no one gets bothered by it. Obviously the coins I am practicing on are no longer tender. There was some bylaw in the states saying that you cannot alter currency that will make it worth more than the ring value. The half crown shape is what is termed the fat tyre. Popular in the states where they use a large ring. Smaller coins not so easy as you have to stretch the metal & lot & the writing is much harder to read. That half crown was annealed 6 times during the process. They work harden very quick once you start to reform them. Half crown1st attempt

      Another pic

       

      Edited By Steviegtr on 20/01/2020 22:47:01

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      #31281
      Steviegtr
      Participant
        @steviegtr

        Coin rings

        #447924
        Steviegtr
        Participant
          @steviegtr

          Forgot to say I am looking for a parallel Knurl for the lathe to recreate the edge of the coin. It will have to be very fine though & only a single wheel one. If anyone knows of a supplier. All the ones I have seen are much too coarse. Also need to make some stepped arbours so I can install in the chuck of the lathe to work on the outside of the rings without damaging them.

          Steve.

          #447939
          Cabinet Enforcer
          Participant
            @cabinetenforcer

            There are quite a few .999 silver 1 ounce coin designs issued by the royal mint which could make nice rings. Also the silver £20 coin issued for the queen's 90th birthday with a crown and 9 roses in a circle really suits being made into a ring.

            If you want matched reeding on the edges then you'll probably have to make your own knurl to match, or remove the reeded edge and re-do it with a bought knurl. A shop made knurl wouldn't need to be all that hard if only used for forming silver.

            #447940
            Steviegtr
            Participant
              @steviegtr

              Thanks for that info. Some more I will be doing. I have a Krugerand coming which is pure. Qe2-1Silver Qe2startedMorgan dollars

              Some to start with

              #447941
              Steviegtr
              Participant
                @steviegtr

                The £5 coin I am going to try & stretch it so that most of the detail is kept. Obviously some of the centre will be lost. The art is in the annealing keeping the metal very soft so it can be stretched & shrunk. My friends who have seen some of my rings cannot get there head round how they are made.

                #447946
                Speedy Builder5
                Participant
                  @speedybuilder5

                  Hi Steve – fascinating post. I guess a lot of us would like to know how these rings are made.

                  Bob

                  #447952
                  David George 1
                  Participant
                    @davidgeorge1

                    Hi Steve you can use the wheel from a plastic lighter with a flint the wheel is very hard and its easy to make a holder to make a knurling tool.

                    David

                    #448024
                    Steviegtr
                    Participant
                      @steviegtr
                      Posted by David George 1 on 21/01/2020 07:56:42:

                      Hi Steve you can use the wheel from a plastic lighter with a flint the wheel is very hard and its easy to make a holder to make a knurling tool.

                      David

                      How do you guys do it, the idea's you come up with, a lighter sparker. Just looked & it does look pretty much the pitch I would need. Thanks you David.

                      Steve.

                      #448038
                      old mart
                      Participant
                        @oldmart

                        I believe the OP meant copper, not zinc in the coins. The old threepenny bits may have had a brass alloy.

                        The lighter wheels may have a sawtooth profile, not symmetrical like knurling wheels.

                        #448046
                        SillyOldDuffer
                        Moderator
                          @sillyoldduffer

                          In most countries, legal tender isn't owned by the whomever happens to be holding it at the moment. In the UK, money belongs to the Crown, and Subjects are lent it to use as a medium of exchange. When coins had actual monetary value being made of Gold, Silver, Bronze, etc. it was common for the actual value of the metal to exceed its notional value. Therefore it was possible to profit by melting down coins whenever metal values were high. Doing this is very bad for the economy because everyone's ability to exchange goods reduces as the coinage disappears and because prices rise unecessarily because there's a shortage of coins. It's doubly bad if the metal is sent abroad. This is where the severe punishments come from, echoed today by the penalties for counterfeiting paper money.

                          Another potential offence is that defacing coinage is a way citizens in the past have shown distaste for their leaders. As Leaders tend to have delicate egos, it's often illegal to deface their images, even if they've been dead a century or two. Be careful abroad. Some countries will react if a tourist draws a moustache on a banknote!

                          In theory punishments for messing with coinage are severe, once including death sentences, transportation, and long prison sentences. But since about 1925 coins aren't normally made of metal having any real value. They really are just tokens. Melting down tons of current coins for their scrap value might get one into big trouble, but in practice no-one really cares. This is doubly true of coins that are no longer legal-tender. Unlikely anyone will mind if a few old coins are turned into something else.

                          But beware of modifying old coins without checking. A friend of mine found a Young Victoria Gold Sovereign in his back garden and drilled a hole in it to make a necklace for his daughter. Out of curiosity he showed it to a local Coin Dealer, who said without the hole it was a rare collectable in Extra Fine condition worth about £1500, probably considerably more at auction. With his hole, scrap value only…

                          Dave

                          #448058
                          Neil Wyatt
                          Moderator
                            @neilwyatt
                            Posted by Steviegtr on 20/01/2020 22:53:46:

                            Forgot to say I am looking for a parallel Knurl for the lathe to recreate the edge of the coin. It will have to be very fine though & only a single wheel one. If anyone knows of a supplier. All the ones I have seen are much too coarse. Also need to make some stepped arbours so I can install in the chuck of the lathe to work on the outside of the rings without damaging them.

                            Steve.

                            People have used flint wheels from lighters in the past.

                            Any pictures of the ring forming process?

                            Neil

                            #448065
                            old mart
                            Participant
                              @oldmart

                              In the UK, only coins which are current legal tender are protected by law. For example, the old 50p coins or pound coins are fair game for defacing.

                              #448091
                              Steviegtr
                              Participant
                                @steviegtr
                                Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/01/2020 16:25:32:

                                Posted by Steviegtr on 20/01/2020 22:53:46:

                                Forgot to say I am looking for a parallel Knurl for the lathe to recreate the edge of the coin. It will have to be very fine though & only a single wheel one. If anyone knows of a supplier. All the ones I have seen are much too coarse. Also need to make some stepped arbours so I can install in the chuck of the lathe to work on the outside of the rings without damaging them.

                                Steve.

                                People have used flint wheels from lighters in the past.

                                Any pictures of the ring forming process?

                                Neil

                                I have not taken any pictures yet as have been busy with setting up the lathe. The picture above the Morgan dollar's is a1948 half crown annealed & after the 1st push. I stopped at that because I was using a balling dome & ball. It started to mark the print. I now have some tapered stainless cones of various sizes & just got some Acetal to make tapered & parallel pushers. I also had trouble keeping the coin central whilst pressing the hole out. Had an idea after watching the American's do it. So looking to get a 2" pipe threaded coupling & a 2" cast blank plug. To make my own. Plus some cast reducers from 2" down to what I think will work. Coins you can wear on you tube is pretty much how I do it.

                                Steve.

                                #448348
                                Steviegtr
                                Participant
                                  @steviegtr

                                  Well watching the ring making on you tube tonight & thought of this forum. A few minutes of your time to watch this guy line a coin with silver. His technique for putting the solder on was good. The finished product was stunning & no black or green finger.

                                  #448384
                                  Neil Wyatt
                                  Moderator
                                    @neilwyatt
                                    Thanks Stevie.
                                    #448402
                                    Phil Stevenson
                                    Participant
                                      @philstevenson54758

                                      Not to take anything away from Steve's work – brilliant! – Cliffs Shed on the Toob has quite a lot of detail on ring making from coins. Interesting bloke. Cliff's Shed

                                      #448410
                                      SillyOldDuffer
                                      Moderator
                                        @sillyoldduffer
                                        Posted by old mart on 21/01/2020 16:55:00:

                                        In the UK, only coins which are current legal tender are protected by law. For example, the old 50p coins or pound coins are fair game for defacing.

                                        Is that true? I couldn't find anything that confirms it, rather the opposite. For example, even though old pound coins aren't legal tender, they can still be exchanged for pound coins that are. Although the old pound coin was withdrawn because it was too easy to simulate well enough to fool a vending machine, they're still valid at the Bank of England.

                                        Here's how the Bank of England define it: Legal tender has a narrow technical meaning which has no use in everyday life. It means that if you offer to fully pay off a debt to someone in legal tender, they can’t sue you for failing to repay. Curiously, while Banknotes are legal tender in England and Wales, they aren't in Scotland or Northern Ireland! It doesn't alter the price of fish.

                                        I don't think the actual legalities matter in Stevie's case because his offence is entirely theoretical – it doesn't matter, and no one cares, nor are they likely to care. The Bank of England may even be pleased he's saving them the cost and bother of replacing old money. Far more exciting if Stevie was converting scrap into replica WW1 Trench Knives and selling them. Even though there's no law directly forbidding replica trench knives, expect to go to jail.

                                        Good work from Stevie – attractive rings and impressive workmanship. More the merrier!

                                        Dave

                                        #448431
                                        Nicholas Farr
                                        Participant
                                          @nicholasfarr14254

                                          Hi, a photo of one I made earlier, very, very many year ago in fact, from a 1947 Two bob Bit.

                                          ring1.jpg

                                          Another view and a couple of views of one I started around the same time, but never finished, from a 1933 Florin, Rings

                                          Regards Nick.

                                          Edited By Nicholas Farr on 23/01/2020 14:29:52

                                          #448433
                                          Steviegtr
                                          Participant
                                            @steviegtr

                                            Looking at that ring above. Is that 2 rings joined at the centre. I think when making them the only limit is the imagination. I was looking at one last night, the guy is making a miniature bell from 2 coins. That got me thinking of doing one slightly differently & making it work using a ball bearing somehow fused to a piece of guitar string or such. MMn no probably a cast or brass ball, drilling a hole in a ball bearing would be difficult, Sorry(thinking aloud)& then machining a miniature handle to complete. If I do attempt to make one I will try & draw it 1st in autocad. So I have actual drawings for reference.

                                            #448438
                                            Nicholas Farr
                                            Participant
                                              @nicholasfarr14254

                                              Hi Steviegtr, it is a single coin, no joins whatsoever.

                                              Regards Nick.

                                              #448444
                                              Steviegtr
                                              Participant
                                                @steviegtr

                                                Another thing I want to make is a stepped arbour to fit in the lathe to rotate very slowly to do detail work around them. I have some Liver of Sulphur which blackens the rings if immersed in hot water mixture for a period of time. Watching people do this in vids, they all seem to then set about the ring with various grades of sandpaper. Idea to highlight the gigh points while leaving the low points black. Giving the ring an antique look. From what I have watched attacking a soft ring with sand paper is not my idea of being delicate. Hence the mandrel in the lathe so that the hi points can be carefully addressed without removing any material from it. Then to polish with to good old Solvol. I have done a lot of polishing work , see pic of a from my Classic Suzuki. Suzuki frame

                                                #449399
                                                Steviegtr
                                                Participant
                                                  @steviegtr

                                                  Been messing on the lathe today. Made a complete blooper trying to turn a ring expander down to make a stepped ring holder. The whole thing exploded & wrecked everything. To top it all the cross slide on the carriage went tight to move. Thinking the worst as always I guessed I had bent the cross slide casting. So I stripped the whole thing off, only to find that with the vibration the lock screw had moved inward & made the whole thing tight to move. Phew. A few further pics of my progress with the rings. The 1st one I made was a 2 shilling piece. It was not very good & very wonky. Tonight I attacked it again & made it a bit better. Now it is called a fat tyre.

                                                  I am sure a lot of you members are perfectionists. You look at something & say that is not quite right. I have been like that since I was a kid. I guess these days the establishment will have a meaning for the condition. I am sorry ma'hm your son is a nutter. Or has something zymer disease. I am trying really hard to get right.

                                                  Before I start with the Silver ones that will be bad if I mess them up. Anyway a few pics of tonight's progress. You will see the black on the coins, this is Liver of sulphur. It is supposed to stain the metal black to give the patina look. ( JA have I spelled this correctly, feel free) It comes off very easy so not really suitable. I am working on a way to stain a permanent colour which will never come of & not discolour the finger. I digress as usual here you go. Enjoy.Getting betterFilthy hands, great

                                                  Liver of sulphur

                                                  #449813
                                                  Ian S C
                                                  Participant
                                                    @iansc

                                                    A knurring tool only takes a few minutes to make from a bit of scrap steel, a flint wheel from a Bic lighter, and a roller from a small roller bearing. first the wheel needs to be fitted with a bronze/brass bush or it will do it's best to cut the pin. A forked end in the steel body of the tool, with a transverse hole to take the pin. In use use plenty of oil down the sides of the wheel. This tool will knurl most steels normally used, I'v used it on 4140, it does a good job on aluminium and brass. Must get a photo with better contrast.

                                                    Ian S C

                                                    dsc01160 (800x600).jpg

                                                    #449841
                                                    Steviegtr
                                                    Participant
                                                      @steviegtr

                                                      Ian S C . Thanks for the picture. Could I make the tool from square section brass. I say this because those pins on the flint are very small & I would not be able to make bushes so small. Also what or where is the roller, from a roller bearing.

                                                      I have taken a few lighters apart & all those have the pins fixed. How would I get the thing assembled without the fork being bolted together.

                                                      Steve.

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