from a 3.5 inch Gezina to 5 inch tramway Plettenberg locomotive

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from a 3.5 inch Gezina to 5 inch tramway Plettenberg locomotive

Home Forums Work In Progress and completed items from a 3.5 inch Gezina to 5 inch tramway Plettenberg locomotive

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  • #401403
    Werner Schleidt
    Participant
      @wernerschleidt45161

      Hello all,

      this is a discription of my work , a conversion from a 3.5 inch Gezina to a 5 inch Tramway locomotive.

      All starts with the question to steam friend " do you still have the boiler ?"

      The answer was yes . This was the start oft the project.

      20181112_191534.jpg

      The parts look nice, but more then 25 years old. In the beginning I thought if its possible to keep the green house, but it was very fast clear that makes no sense.

      The front

      20181112_210344.jpg

      After the decision to look to a tramway locomotive I made very fast the decision to build the locomotive Plettenberg. She is in preservation at the museum railway Bruchhausen-Vilsen in Germany.

      pn2.jpg

      This was a good decision,because I have The Chiemseebahn and a freelance Wiliam Wilkison tramway locomotive build and constructed.

      Werner

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      #31253
      Werner Schleidt
      Participant
        @wernerschleidt45161

        a conversion from a narrow gauge to tramway locomotive

        #401454
        OldMetaller
        Participant
          @oldmetaller

          Hello Werner, I will follow this thread with interest as I love tram locomotives!

          Good luck with the build!

          John.

          #401484
          Mark Gould 1
          Participant
            @markgould1

            Looks great Werner, I look forward to seeing more!

            #401581
            Werner Schleidt
            Participant
              @wernerschleidt45161

              Many thanks for your replies.

              I will update my work .

              The next step was looking if the boiler is OK . For that I had to make several plugs with M8*1 thread.

              I had to learn that teflon tape which tighten with M8*0.75 without problems with M8*1 there were the problem that the tape was shift off the thread and the tighting was only by chance. I had to do it several times,perhaps the fit of the thread was to good.

              All of the valves I found in the added box ,but they were internally not ready made. It was not a problem to fix it ,but only work to do. At the picture all valves are in place and the boiler is OK a good step forward.

              20181126_065628.jpg

              The next step was to make the new 5 inch gauge frame. So I disassemble all parts with the exeption of the wheels. The profil and the diameter was not useable. In the time between I ordered my material and I had to keep in mind ,it was late in November 2018, that over the year when i have time that all important materials are there. for the frame and the housing.

              I build the frame in a simple way similar to the principle of my Maxitrak Ruby. That means the rear axle is fix in the frame and the front axle is tiltable. That worked on my locomotives relativ good even on not good prepared tracks.

              20181209_145827.jpg

              I tried to reuse as much as possible .It was not easy to align all properly. The plans from the Gezina was not very helpful,because the cylinder tighting sketch at the frame was not there. And the guy who build that 25 years ago had not the same hole layout on both cylinder. The wheels had a greater diameter and so I had to arrange all new. But with some patience bot sides got together working. In mid of december the first turns of the wheels were achieved under air pressure.

              20181214_070033.jpg

              It was noticeable that the cylinder needs a lot of air and the compression was low. I tried to see what happens with a lot of oil.

              The system behaviour was better ,but I can see that there was leeaking oil out of the cylinder a leak was recognized.20181215_100149.jpg

              The cylinder were build up with a combination of materials and were silversoldered together. I had to disassemble it and softsolder it steam tight. By stripping all off and out I saw that the pistonring with teflon tape has no connection to the cylinder bore. I machined a new groove to fit a teflon ring with an Oring for static pressure.

              With this setup the cylinder had a lot of compression. That was really good .This action I have done on both sides and then I put all together . What a difference in the behaviour after that repair.

              will be updated

              Werner

              #402325
              Werner Schleidt
              Participant
                @wernerschleidt45161

                Here is the next update.

                The boiler was aligned at the frame to see where the pipes and attachments have to go.

                This was an iterative process, because my plan is only the photo in the rear .

                20181215_120847.jpg

                The the footplate on the frame were build.Screwed with many M2 Screws countersink type.

                20181217_202025.jpg

                The boiler attachments were arranged and Iwant to use as much as possible from the old frame.

                20181231_204730.jpg

                The housing was constructed with brass material .I ordered at the dealer as much as possible cuted in the correct dimensions I measured from the photo. Step by step it came to the look of the original locomotive.

                The brass for the roof I had to order later ,because the correct dimension were only visible and measureable in this stage.

                In the time between till the ordered parts arrived,, I completed the frame with valves steampump ,bypass valve,,watertank between the frame and so on.

                20190104_180651.jpg

                Here is the water tank between the frame visible and the pipework for water and oiling the axles. For all attachments I tried to install it in a way that service is good possible.

                20190105_113941.jpg

                That is not easy to achieve ,because in further steps there are some attachments were screws are blocked.

                20190105_203502.jpg

                The homemade oilpump with ratchet mechanism. The toothwheel have to have more teeths. In this configuration it is a litle bit dificult to adjust it.

                20190224_181733.jpg

                On the right side is an automatic blower valve. This valve open and close pressure dependant the blower .For small boiler is this a good attachment, because is much easier to fire. And it is good if you have a coffee break then you could come back and the fire is still alive.

                Werner

                #402330
                Jon Lawes
                Participant
                  @jonlawes51698

                  I don't think I'd be going off for a coffee break with a lit fire!

                  #402336
                  Werner Schleidt
                  Participant
                    @wernerschleidt45161

                    It is shure to keep an eye on it ,but you can take a short break and you are not forced to look to the pressure cauge, the safety valve and so on permanent. I have tested it with an other small loco . With the steamp pump on in slow movement and enough coal in the fire box, the system can work for till an half hour with nearly nothing to do.

                    Otherwise you blow the water out by the safety valve ,the fire is dead or there is no water in the gauge.

                    #402599
                    Werner Schleidt
                    Participant
                      @wernerschleidt45161

                      This is the boiler on the driver side.The reversal handle was not ready at that time.

                      20190105_203511.jpg

                      I tried to use the same setup of valves and handles as I have on my other locomotives.

                      20190130_190425.jpg

                      All necessary attachments are there some refinements have to made later before painting.

                      For my opinion it looks pretty much the same like the Plettenberg at the photo.

                      20190203_134411.jpg

                      The spark arrestor was very difficult to make. The small pipe and the bell are whithout function.

                      20190302_144220.jpg

                      Now with the nameplates on the side. The have been made in etching technic.

                      With good wheather the next step is testing under steam. Then I will see whath happens. With air pressure I made tests on the table and they were sucessful.

                      Werner

                      #402600
                      Jon Lawes
                      Participant
                        @jonlawes51698

                        Looks fantastic Werner, sehr schön.

                        #402632
                        OldMetaller
                        Participant
                          @oldmetaller

                          Wow! Amazing work Werner, that looks wonderful!

                          John.

                          #403970
                          Werner Schleidt
                          Participant
                            @wernerschleidt45161

                            Hello all , here is an update of my work.

                            The Plettenberg was now two times under steam with good experience. But, as you all know, steam is in everytime good to get new expereience. By the first heat up the pressure gauge was defekt. I let the fire go down and I had luck that I had a replacement.. With the replacement all work was straight forward. And the first ride was succesfull.

                            I ordered after that a new pressure gauge and I added an additional check valve to  the Injektor pipe to the boiler.

                            With this setup the injector worked very good from 3 to 7 bar from low to high water in the water gauge.

                            The loco run very good I was satisfied ,but there is room for optimization. The safety valves I will change to pop action , because they open good but the closeing is sometime late.

                            The hand valves have to be optimized ,because they are not satisfiing steam thight.

                            Overall i am very fine with the behaviour of the Plettenberg.

                            To give you an impression I made a video from the build in the workshop and the run in my garden.

                             

                            Werner

                             

                            Edited By Werner Schleidt on 07/04/2019 08:50:45

                            #403988
                            OldMetaller
                            Participant
                              @oldmetaller

                              Excellent work Werner! You have a nice railway. What is the first piece of music on your video, please?

                              Best wishes,

                              John.

                              #403998
                              Paul Kemp
                              Participant
                                @paulkemp46892

                                Werner, very nice, looks to steam very well. I like that steam pump runs very smooth at low speed. I take it from the flange squeal you are running on steel rail in your garden?

                                Paul.

                                #404004
                                Werner Schleidt
                                Participant
                                  @wernerschleidt45161

                                  Hello Paul,

                                  the flange squeal is from the steel rails on steel slippers. It occurs In the range of the gras. In our well water for the garden we have some iron therefore this part is brown and the rails are steel with zinc coating. With a few drops of olive oil on a brush ,greasing the flange where it sqeaks , this is gone. This time I forgot this to do. I was hot testing the Plettenberg.

                                  At my track there is an inclination of 2 to 3 % and in combination with that narrow curves ( radius 5m) it is with steam not easy to drive. My experience is ,if i can drive at home, I am able to drive on any club track. It is an ideal test track.

                                  Werner

                                  #404012
                                  Paul Kemp
                                  Participant
                                    @paulkemp46892

                                    Werner,

                                    Looks a very nice little track and with the tight curves very prototypical. The flange squeal adds to the atmosphere! On heritage railways over here they are sometimes using graphite blocks which are sprung loaded into the root of the flange from a holder to provide 'lubrication' and extend the life of the wheel profiles by reducing wear. Might be something to experiment with on your home track to save the olive oil.

                                    Paul.

                                    #404019
                                    Ron Laden
                                    Participant
                                      @ronladen17547

                                      Very nice indeed Werner, I agree with Paul the flange squeal adds to the atmosphere. I am very envious of your garden railway and its also complete with a turntable, very nice.

                                      Ron

                                      #404051
                                      Werner Schleidt
                                      Participant
                                        @wernerschleidt45161

                                        Hello Ron,Paul ,

                                        thanks for your ideas regarding the noise sqeuals. This track was originally planned as a small test track and then my at that time 10 years old son and I had some ideas. And so we developed the layout. The turntable is necessary to come to the fire up and service stand in the corner. We have to cut three trees and smaller ones. Then we thought we have to have a station house. So the wooden house was build. It was a little bit an overkill,but whitout railway driving it is good to use for other purposes.

                                        I use this track more as a test track and not very often. My problem is, I have more ideas then time.

                                        Werner

                                        #405345
                                        Werner Schleidt
                                        Participant
                                          @wernerschleidt45161

                                          Hello all,

                                          after a testride in the garden about 1 Km ,perhaps with less oil on the crosshead, I had an accidenttal blocking of the left crosshead. There was no movement possible. It was like welded.

                                          Could someone give me an advice how much play I have to have that oil can grease?

                                          I made a shim of 0.1 mm and add this for more side lash. Is there a rule of thumb? Years a go where I am not able to work such precise I had less problems,but rattling. smiley

                                          Werner

                                          #407984
                                          Werner Schleidt
                                          Participant
                                            @wernerschleidt45161

                                            At our club track we had on the first of may a nice club driving day without public.

                                            The Plettenberg was able to pull a load with two adult persons. This is very satisfying.

                                            After the run I had some issues,because I lost the rod to the oil pump. But all is repared and better then before.

                                            Wise man called this experience, good joke but it is the truth. smiley

                                            Werner

                                             

                                            Edited By Werner Schleidt on 06/05/2019 17:56:10

                                            #408050
                                            Kerrin Galvin
                                            Participant
                                              @kerringalvin72662

                                              Hi Werner,

                                              It looks like you & the others had a fun day!

                                              The Tram looks to be running very well, you should be very pleased. Minor challenges are character building!

                                              Cheers Kerrin

                                              #408057
                                              duncan webster 1
                                              Participant
                                                @duncanwebster1

                                                Unlike a meeting of an average UK club, the majority of the drivers in Werner's video seem to be younger. What's the secret?

                                                Must say that Werner's loco has got me interested in rehashing the Tich I started nearly 50 years ago as a tram engine. It's been 'finished' several times, but you can always do better. Haven't touched it for probably 35 years, but I think I know where it is!

                                                #408129
                                                Werner Schleidt
                                                Participant
                                                  @wernerschleidt45161

                                                  Hallo Kerrin,Duncan,

                                                  The Plettenberg runs very good .She is able to haul two adult persons. On our narrow curve with 6 m radius there is some wheel slip, but for a loco with 28 kg it performs very good. I am impressed that the small boiler have no problems to hold the pressure during driving. The only thing is to carefully look to the water level ,because the water came then out of the chimney. With some experience it is all manageable. The number 2 injector is a good fit and runs perfect. I found a mistake in the donkey pump. I got this with other valves and stuff by chance for a good price. At higher pressure as 3 bars there was only less flow. The comercial who build this has a teflon piston on the water side with a bad fit. I added an o ring and now there is much flow under pressure.

                                                  That is all fine tunning. I think it was a great idea to work with the 3,5 inch parts and build a new 5 inch chassis.

                                                  Duncan to your first question. The young guys are in the age of 14 and above. They are from familys where the father love trains . The youngster with the BR 24 at the beginning pulls his father to the trains. Now the are both in love with trains.

                                                  This was not an open day with public so all could go in a relaxed way. The BR 24 had his first succesfull run. I show the youngster and his father how to adjust the walscherts motion control. Before they can only drive forward. I show him the principle how to adjust the motion control . And with a little luck then it was perfect running. They bought this loco and it does not run under steam before.

                                                  Since the new managing comittee is working,I am a member of it , we try to transfer experience in a firendly way.

                                                  So the youngsters find physics very usefull and they have a lot of fun with gaining more experience. And this is nice to see. And they are better in school . One of them searched a job for practical training. He was one of hundred . As he told the personal boss what he do as his hobby, he was selected and he was very proud to learn mechanical things.

                                                  We have in the club special locos for the youngsters, but we let them also drive club trains under the control of an adult person. So they are proud to do this. And this starts the fire in them for the hobby.

                                                  But it is difficult to get offspring. You have to pull the father with them. And this is very difficult. There are so many other possibilities to do without getting dirt at the finger.

                                                  I think Tich parts are good to convert,too. Give it a start and it is a good winter project. smiley

                                                  Werner

                                                  #416067
                                                  Werner Schleidt
                                                  Participant
                                                    @wernerschleidt45161

                                                    Hello all,

                                                    I had some work on a hot day with more than 30°C. Since some time agao I worked on a mesurement test equipment and the unpainted Plettenberg is a good test object.

                                                    I wanted to measure the pressure in the cylinder and the displacement of the piston. I want to see how this diagram is compareable to pubished charts in books. And in next steps the measurement of indicated power in relation to the force on the draw-hook and the driving speed will follow.

                                                    Today it was a little bit tricky , because I had jobs for 3 persons but I have to done it by my own. My Laptop and my camera had heat problems. It was good to have a back up.

                                                    s1970001.jpg

                                                    The pressure sensor with adaptors.

                                                    s1970002.jpg

                                                    The cylinder cover where it was connected.

                                                    s1970003.jpg

                                                    Now installed.

                                                    s1970004.jpg

                                                    The selfmade displacement sensor.

                                                    indikator3.jpg

                                                    The time diagram green is pressure, red ist piston travel. From start to driving a few meters.

                                                    indikator 1.jpg

                                                    The full piston travel during start.

                                                    indikator4.jpg

                                                    Starting and driving with closing of the steam valve to slow down a little bit.

                                                    indikator2.jpg

                                                    Start and driving as above in xy diagramm

                                                    Werner

                                                    #416071
                                                    Werner Schleidt
                                                    Participant
                                                      @wernerschleidt45161

                                                      Hello all,

                                                      I made a documentation video of my tests.

                                                      Werner
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