Can you identify this engine?

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Can you identify this engine?

This topic has 27 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 1 May 2017 at 14:12 by Ian S C.

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18 April 2017 at 01:56 #293834
Brendan Maloney
Participant
@brendanmaloney55697
Hi

This engine was found in a rubbish pile on a nature strip, .

I would guess the fellow who built it had passed away and either had no family or they did not value his work. Luckily it was found by someone who could see the work that went into it. He asked if I would have a look at it and see if I could get it to run. I have managed to get some spark., but I don't think I could spin it fast enough to get it to run. I am not sure it has ever run as the piston looks very clean.

Has anyone seen any thing like it before? it appears to be completely hand made.

Regards

Brendan
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18 April 2017 at 01:56 #31160
Brendan Maloney
Participant
@brendanmaloney55697
18 April 2017 at 06:50 #293839
clogs
Participant
@clogs
Hi Brenden, no idea of what it is but what a SWEETY……..

always having to get this sort of thing running, I use a converted starter motor from a Mk1 mini…….

Replace the bendix with a squre drive from a 1/2" socket set…….make up a heavy, 2 handled plate for the front end…

(make sure you drive from the correct side of the engine for rotation)……then get a friend to connect it to the battery and to play with the carb…..

mine has a solenoid fitted with a button switch so I can work it alone……

the motor can be jerked off once the engine runs but it'll prob fall off with the excitement…..

theres' no problems doing this with these small petrol engines other than watch ur fingers, if ur worried make one of the handles long enough to reach the floor or bench…..

good luck …….clogs
18 April 2017 at 07:18 #293841
Brendan Maloney
Participant
@brendanmaloney55697
Thanks for the reply

I did try spinning it with a battery drill and a socket, worked until it spun the fly wheel nut off, then tried 2 nuts but spun them off again, I may try an old Model airplane starter I have, not sure it will have the grunt but worth a try.

Brendan
18 April 2017 at 08:27 #293848
Ady1
Participant
@ady1
A sprag bearing would make things safer
18 April 2017 at 08:53 #293853
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Not sure what is supporting the fuel tank, but it looks like the head may be too low. Try a spray with easy start or other flam gas.
18 April 2017 at 09:10 #293858
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
I guess the problem is that when you fill up with petrol, it all pours out of that hole in the tank

Be patient, ripping it over with a starter motor isn't always the best thing to do. It's very easy to flood an engine this size.

Carb jets could easily be gunged up, valves sticky, air filters clogged etc…

Bradex is a good suggestion, it will show you if you have compression..

Neil
18 April 2017 at 10:04 #293866
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The angle of the fins on the head suggest it is meant for a tether car rather than a boat but looking through my usual site for engine ID does not show anything to match.

Usually turn anti clockwise when looking at the flywheel end.

Edited By JasonB on 18/04/2017 10:05:13
18 April 2017 at 10:41 #293871
stevetee
Participant
@stevetee
My advice would be to take the mag off and leave it somwhere warm for a week to dry the insulation out. Old magneto insulation absorbs water from the surroundings and then can go short after a little running . When you have a decent spark . Then try the engine with a whiff of easy start. If you have a spark it will at least go pop.

Edited By stevetee on 18/04/2017 10:42:35
18 April 2017 at 10:49 #293872
Clive Foster
Participant
@clivefoster55965
If it is completely home built and home designed you can't be sure that no showstopper errors have crept in somewhere in the process. Doesn't take much to stop a basically sound design from running. Hardest part is to make a well behaved carburettor. After you have done all the basic timing, cam lift and duration checks to ensure the basic design and assembly is reasonably sound easy start spray would be best way to confirm that its capable of running.

Looks to me as if the carburettor is Amal style. Probably along the lines of the old "standard" type. If so the float chamber and main jet both look to be too low relative to the venturi so the mixture will be all over the place and almost certainly too lean for it to start. if you can beg or borrow a modern appropriately sized carburettor that might give you abetter chance of getting it going.

Carburettors are hard.

Crude option would be to find a Wal Phillips fuel injector, basically a drip feed jet on a venturi with a throttle plate. Just adjust the gravity feed head until it runs! Brutally crude but they do work quite well and, so long as the jet size is within reason, pretty much anything that can run will run. Look fairly easy to make if you had basic dimensions.

Fair bit of work involved but rewarding once its going.

Clive.

Edited By Clive Foster on 18/04/2017 10:50:17
18 April 2017 at 11:48 #293881
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
That head looks familiar but can't place it. Fuel tank looks to be low.
18 April 2017 at 12:09 #293883
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
What a beautiful piece of work. I'm so glad it was rescued from the scrap pile. It has a real 1930s-40s look to it. Beautiful and certainly work persevering with. Please let us know if you do find out anything about its origins.
20 April 2017 at 13:03 #294223
Dave Halford
Participant
@davehalford22513
Unlikely to run with a stub exhaust, about a foot of pipe on the exhaust port might help.

The tank should be above the head.

last years lawn mower fuel might not be any good

You can choke it by partially blocking the carb inlet with your palm.

If it still wont go

remove the plug if it's dripping wet wave it in the blowlamp flame till the secondary 'candle flame' stops and try again. If it gets very wet very quick it might be an alchohol burner.

while the plug is out stick your finger / thumb over the hole and crank it over on your starter. it should blow the digit off with a nice phutt.

if it doesn't check the rockers / pushrods have some rattle in them on the firing stroke.

If they have the rings could be stuck or the valve seats are stuffed

If the plug is dry and it phutts dribble a couple of drops straight down the plug hole and try it again.
20 April 2017 at 13:17 #294229
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Unlikely to run with a stub exhaust, about a foot of pipe on the exhaust port might help.

It is a four stroke engine, not a two stroke, so no exhaust will not prevent it running. Oil into the plug hole would easily check for rings or valves problem on the compression test.

As previously, 'easy start' is likely the best way to see if it will fire.
20 April 2017 at 13:59 #294237
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Posted by not done it yet on 20/04/2017 13:17:26:

Unlikely to run with a stub exhaust, about a foot of pipe on the exhaust port might help.

It is a four stroke engine, not a two stroke, so no exhaust will not prevent it running.

Not having an exhaust fitted won't prevent a 2 stroke engine running either.

Emgee
20 April 2017 at 14:05 #294239
Old School
Participant
@oldschool
Jason, It is unlikely to be a tether car engine usually max engine capacity is 10cc and a two stroke. The current rules allow the use of four stroke engines at twice the capacity of the two stroke engines. It would be a challenge to build a car that complied with the weight limits. It is more likely to for a tethered boat they allow engines up to 30cc.

Edited By Old School on 20/04/2017 14:06:18
20 April 2017 at 14:19 #294241
martin perman 1
Participant
@martinperman1
Looks a lot like a Norman with that overhead valve system. See if there is a serial no stamped anywhere on the crank cases.

Martin P
21 April 2017 at 09:40 #294336
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
Do we know what size it is ,eg capacity ?
30 April 2017 at 08:52 #295582
Brendan Maloney
Participant
@brendanmaloney55697
This where I am at.

The timing was way off so I had to open the engine.

I cant see any numbers.

I don't know the capacity be could be 30 CC at a guess.

The mag is faux it hides the points which are a bit sticky I am hoping not to have pull them to bits, with no plans I am treading softly, trying not to break anything.

Discovered the little lever operated cable is a decompressor, I thought it was an oil pump.

Currently cycling the NiCad pack that powers my model aeroplane starter, has not been used for years as all my planes are now electric.

Brendan
30 April 2017 at 09:25 #295589
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
Awesome! That little reciprocating oil pump looks simlar to the way Triumph motorbike engines did it in about the same era.
30 April 2017 at 09:41 #295597
Chris Evans 6
Participant
@chrisevans6
Don't give up on it, that will be a very rewarding thing to run when you have it sorted.
30 April 2017 at 09:55 #295601
John Gardener
Participant
@johngardener91897
May be a stupid question, brings back memories of my Velocette Viper, is it something converted from one of those?
30 April 2017 at 10:01 #295603
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
Only if it shrank in the wash! But it certainly has that Brit motorbike look of the 30s-50s (or early 70s in Velo's case!)

Interesting that the builder hid the points in a very convincing scale model of a Lucas Magdyno as used on Brit motorbikes for decades.

Whatever it is, there certainly must be an interesting story behind it.
30 April 2017 at 10:46 #295610
John Gardener
Participant
@johngardener91897
Ok, OK, so it WAS a stupid question, I'm very good at them!
30 April 2017 at 10:46 #295611
John Gardener
Participant
@johngardener91897
Ok, OK, so it WAS a stupid question, I'm very good at them!
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