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Mega Adept

This topic has 202 replies, 33 voices, and was last updated 11 October 2016 at 17:08 by Saskatoon Model Engineering Society.

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21 August 2014 at 19:47 #31063
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
A tool modification blog!
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21 August 2014 at 19:47 #161430
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
OK, I've come clean and to the disgust of at least one bodger I have acquired a lovely blue Super Adept.

It's completely worn out in the spindle department, but the rest of it seems reasonably OK. I suspect high speed running with little lubrication, as the spindle was 2 thou undersize at the front bearing and the headstock had cracked during an attempt to compensate.

I'm not sure quite how radical the rebuild will be, not CNC, but I do want to see if it can become a back-geared screwcutting machine.

So, here is what I acquired from fellow forum member Steve. He feels he let it go cheap, I think I was ripped off. Or did I think I got a steal and he felt he'd asked too much? With so much confusion, it was probably a fair price – certainly not the silly money you see on Ebay.

As you can see, it looks pretty and it was clean, but it's clearly had a busy life.

The first mod will be a new headstock top replace the cracked one. First part of the design process, is the spindle and an excuse for me to get to grips with Turbocad 21 for more than just opening author's files:

OK, I obviously need to set the number of facets for 'spin extrude' to more than the default 14, but considering! I also need to be aware that a clockwise extrude in a negative direction gives a left handed thread!

In short the new spindle will have a taper bearing at the front and plain at the back, with a hardened thrust washer against the front of the rear bearing bush. Both bushes will be Colphos 90.

Hopefully we will get beyond my first clumsy steps in rendering!

Wish me luck!

Neil
21 August 2014 at 21:09 #161440
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Neil,
1. It will be interesting to see how you handle the screwcutting arrangement.
2. Can you show some dimensions on the spindle drawing, please.
Very pleased to see you having a go at this.

MichaelG.
21 August 2014 at 22:04 #161444
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
One way of doing [1] is pictured here

Click on the thumbnails for some excellent pictures; and click again to zoom in.

… "inspirational" …

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 21/08/2014 22:06:38
5 October 2014 at 16:26 #165685
Saskatoon Model Engineering Society
Participant
@saskatoonmodelengineeringsociety
Mega Adept project.

I have one.

http://saskatoonmodelengineers.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=195709953

http://saskatoonmodelengineers.webs.com/apps/videos/videos/show/12035932-making-skew-gears

It will be the subject of an article in the next issue of Machinist Workshop magazine.

Good luck with your project. I'm quite satified with mine. If I were to do it again I would use a variable speed motor (about 100 watts) and a two speed toothed belt drive with quite a large difference in the speeds….say about 4-500 rpm max in low and 1500 or so in high.
9 October 2014 at 23:28 #166145
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
My Adept came without the pulley on the Mandrel.

It is now painted dark (Prussian) blue.

Can anyone, kindly, let me have details of the pulley, please? Diameters (pitch line or OD, and groove angle?)

Am likely to make two, one for the motor, and one for the mandrel.

Am wondering about using something like a round polyurethane belt for the drive, as an alternative.

May be used a for light work, when for some reason it is not convenient to take work out of the big lathe.

Any comments/experiences Please?

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 09/10/2014 23:29:05
10 October 2014 at 02:06 #166160
Saskatoon Model Engineering Society
Participant
@saskatoonmodelengineeringsociety
The original puleys had a vee angle of almost 65 degrees which is far too much. Even a round belt will slip. I made a three step pulley with vee angle of 30 degrees included. (picture in the links above).

I think the best would be a two step pulley with as much difference between the speeds as you can fit in and a variable speed motor.

Round poly belting is fine. There are two types…..the green is better than the orange because it is not as stretchy. It is difficult to make joints that last though.
10 October 2014 at 08:05 #166173
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Neil,

You've gone awfully quiet on this 'blog'

I hope you haven't been gagged.

MichaelG
10 October 2014 at 08:25 #166177
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Howard Lewis on 09/10/2014 23:28:14:

May be used a for light work, when for some reason it is not convenient to take work out of the big lathe.

Any comments/experiences Please?.

.

Howard,

Have a look at Roderick Jenkins' post on this previous thread

… very tidy installation of a Sewing Machine Motor to drive his Arrand milling/drilling spindle.

MichaelG.
10 October 2014 at 08:33 #166178
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Hi Folks,

This is going very slowly (I haven't cut metal yet) because I realise it's a one-way trip and I don't want to end up with a pile of scrap.

@Howard

Pulley angle here is 74 degrees. I imagine there is much variation and suspect the v-tool used to cut them was ground by eye

Outer diameters are 1.984" and 1.479". I suspect they are 'cleaned up 2" bar and the nominal sizes would be 2" and 1 1/2"

Pulley widths are about 5/16" the larger pulley has two flanges and is marginally wider. Boss width is roughly 3/8" and just over 1" diameter.

I doubt any of these dimensions were checked with a micrometer, they look like rule dimensions to me, which is all they need to be and fits with the need to knock them out by the barrowload.

@Saskatoon

That looks a nice, pretty original restoration. I don't understand what's happening with teh skew gears fiully, can you explain?

Neil
10 October 2014 at 11:08 #166196
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Fellow iPad users … be aware that the skew-gear video requires Flash [and therefore cannot be viewed on the iPad]

I haven't checked yet; but I think this may be the same video, on YouTube.

MichaelG.
10 October 2014 at 13:20 #166201
Mark P.
Participant
@markp
Very nice Neil, similar to my Flexispeed/Simat 101 project.
10 October 2014 at 16:01 #166206
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
> Flexispeed/Simat 101

Super Adept on steroids

Neil
10 October 2014 at 16:12 #166207
Robin King
Participant
@robinking15611
Neil,

just curious to know – have you read B Terry Aspin's (of Chuck fame) articles on how he upgraded/modified a Super Adept? IIRC it was serialised in ME in the early 1950's and well worth a look.

Robin
10 October 2014 at 19:41 #166222
Saskatoon Model Engineering Society
Participant
@saskatoonmodelengineeringsociety
Neil: Actually it is not an original restoration but an upgrade to make it into a useable lathe similar to what you are planning.

The only Adept parts left are the main bed casting and the tailstock casting. The headstock bearings were sawn off and new ones brazed on. The spindle has been enlarged to 1/2" diameter similar to the 1947 article you posted in the "101 things…" forum. It was originally a plain Adept but was "converted" to a Super by cutting the vee's on the bed. The carriage, cross slide, apron and leadscrew drive are all new design. Orginally I had no chucks so made a set of very short collets. I now use Sherline chucks with an adapter to the 1/2" nose thread. I was going to put in back gear and screwcutting capablilty but decided it wsn't worth the effort. If I need more torque (for threading with a die, for instance) I attach a wood disc to the outboard end of the spindle and hand crank it.

The skew gears are not lathe parts, they are the cam drive gears for Westbury's Aveling Road Roller (ME-1938). Just an example of what the lathe is capable of. The fixture is based on an article in Model Engine Builder magazine and holds the gear blank at the proper angle to cut one tooth at a time. I didn't think the Adept would be capable of the job but it did it quite well.

..and yes, Micheal Gilligan, it is the same lathe as on you tube but that is a slightly different video done by someone else. I was demonstrating the gear cutting at a show.

To anyone….if you are going to make new pulleys, do NOT duplicate the wide Vee angle of the originals, it won't work. Use a Vee of 30-40 degrees instead. This advice from the master himself, George Thomas, in designing his "Pillar Tool".
10 October 2014 at 21:45 #166233
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Saskatoon Model Engineering Society on 10/10/2014 19:41:24:

The fixture is based on an article in Model Engine Builder magazine and holds the gear blank at the proper angle to cut one tooth at a time. I didn't think the Adept would be capable of the job but it did it quite well.

..and yes, Micheal Gilligan, it is the same lathe as on you tube but that is a slightly different video done by someone else. I was demonstrating the gear cutting at a show.

.

Thanks for that; I've just fired-up the Mac and watched your video too.

Must see if I can locate a copy of that Model Engine Builder magazine article.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Well, at least I've found a reference.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/10/2014 21:48:38
10 October 2014 at 21:51 #166234
Saskatoon Model Engineering Society
Participant
@saskatoonmodelengineeringsociety
The relevant issue is Model Engine Builder issue #16 March/April 2008. There is a video of the engine running on the SMES website….saskatoonmodelengineer.webs.com
10 October 2014 at 21:55 #166235
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Thanks Sask. It does look rather nice!

Robin,

Another Canuck has kindly kept me topped up with a full set of reprints of all the Adept articles he can find, including 'Chuck's.

Neil
12 October 2014 at 18:55 #166389
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Ha! Real progress with the new spindle. Satisfying to see my 4" chuck really does spin a bar within 0.001"TIR at 4" from the chuck and I'm getting parallel to less than half a thou over that distance (not critical though as the only long bearing surface is the 1/2" diameter section the pulley will spin on.

Now I have to resharpen a screwcutting tool to 55 degrees, then out with the mandrel handle..

Neil
12 October 2014 at 23:11 #166407
Bazyle
Participant
@bazyle
4in chuck I thought these would only use about 2 1/2 .

What size motor is suitable?
13 October 2014 at 13:43 #166434
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
> 4in chuck I thought these would only use about 2 1/2 .

No problem at all, I just need to make the gap about 2" wider

I have the 1/3 hp Hoover that was a stopgap on the bigger lathe for a while. Hugely oversized, but as the belts will slip if overloaded it can't do any harm.

Neil
14 October 2014 at 12:07 #166526
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
The original Adept chuck is 2 1./4" four jaw. Ian S C
14 October 2014 at 20:03 #166577
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Indeed Ian,

I'm just joking – the 4" chuck is on my other lathe which I'm using to turn the spindle. And don't worry, I'm turning everything at one setting!

Neil
15 October 2014 at 06:30 #166586
Howard Lewis
Participant
@howardlewis46836
Thanks to everyone for the info and advice re the pulleys and belts.

I'll go for 30 degrees, (had thought of using the standard 38 degree used for Vee belts).

Another "tomorrow" job!

Howard
15 October 2014 at 08:32 #166594
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Neil Wyatt on 14/10/2014 20:03:54:

… don't worry, I'm turning everything at one setting!

.

Neil,

That's good to hear, and somewhat boggling for the old Brain Cells.

If I understood your design correctly; there will be [a minimum of]
- a plain bore through the spindle, and an an internal taper
- a screwcut nose thread and a plain register
- a tapered bearing surface
- plain sections to take the back-gear and the drive pulleys
- a [higher precision] plain section for the rear bearing
- a screwcut thread for the bearing adjuster
- whatever … for the first gear in your screwcutting train.
That's a lot to machine at one setting in a three-jaw chuck.

I'm guessing that the nose thread, register, and internal taper would be finished in-situ on the Mega-Adept; but I would still be very interested to see your machining sequence.

MichaelG.
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