Stuart ‘Victoria’ : a beginners tale..

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Stuart ‘Victoria’ : a beginners tale..

This topic has 431 replies, 37 voices, and was last updated 6 April 2014 at 10:31 by GarryC.

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3 August 2013 at 16:26 #31023
GarryC
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@garryc
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3 August 2013 at 16:26 #126092
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Well here goes. My main aim is just to complete the project and learn as much as possible along the way – ready for the next one..

Advice and comments (good or bad) are very very welcome – all the way through..

Day1.

Have machined, drilled and tapped the base..

Please excuse the photo quality, am using a very old iphone..

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 10:14:28

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 10:17:13
3 August 2013 at 16:37 #126093
Russell Eberhardt
Participant
@russelleberhardt48058
You've made a good start Allan. Well done.

Russell.
4 August 2013 at 14:19 #126158
BERT ASHTON
Participant
@bertashton57372
Hi Allan, I have sent you a e-mail via this site.Bert.
4 August 2013 at 16:40 #126177
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Thanks both.

Bert – I have replied…
4 August 2013 at 16:53 #126178
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Day 2.

The pedestal machined, drilled and tapped.

Not sure about very slightly counterboring the lower 'floor' holes. The holes are 6mm but for some reason my 6mm counterbore wont fit (I,ve not used a counterbore before, I thought the size referered to the hole size but maybe not?) – as it happens i've tried some bolt heads and they seem to sit nicely flush…

Bearings next..

Regards

Allan.

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 10:18:03
4 August 2013 at 17:02 #126181
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
The guide on commercial counterbores are often sized to suit generous clearance holes so you would need something like a 6.6mm for it to fit.

The other option of you have a long enough slot drill or center cutting endmill is to use that to spot face around the hole.

I personally would also do a bit more fettling to remove the mould split lines which will also allow the washer and nut to sit better

J

Edited By JasonB on 04/08/2013 17:04:36
5 August 2013 at 17:34 #126232
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Thanks for the info Jason and yes I agree the lines need to be sorted…

Regards

Allan
5 August 2013 at 18:09 #126235
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Day 3.

I have struggled a bit with the bearings but they are now ready for drilling the fixing holes and final cleaning..

The first one I did was the most difficult, I made the mistake of not leaving enough protruding from the chuck to turn down the 1/8 'flange' on the bearing (is that the right word?). The result I had to remove and relocate in the chuck and this has I think resulted in a slight taper in the bearing, about 2 thou from one end to the other. Also I could not get my head around how to measure down to the flange. The result on the first bearing was I did not turn it down enough or was unable to repeat the same on the other side. The second one I made a much better job of by turning down to the top of the rounded section of the casting and repeating exactly on each cut. I'm sure there must be a way to have measured exactly. on Bearing no 2 I could not detect any difference (taper) from end to end of the bore and was much happier with this one. I am happy that both bores are at 90 degrees to the base and I have tried an 11mm bar through them and it fits nicely with no detectable slop, to my eye anyway. The crankshaft was supposed to be 11.1mm but I will have to make to 11mm now.

They will not look too bad on the model though when assembled (for a first project attempt anyway..)

I struggle with the dti each time and it takes ages to get runout right but hope this will get easier with practice..

Some pics –

The center of the bore marked out. I used this to bring the tailstock center to the punchmark for initial centering.

Resetting the bore to run true after facing and turning the other side.

Ready for drilling the fixing holes and final cleaning up.

Not the best looking I know but I have learned a lot, which is what this project is all about for me..

I would love to know though how I should have measured the turn down distance to the 'flanges'..

Regards

Allan

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 10:20:42
5 August 2013 at 19:54 #126239
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
There are a couple of ways to get the measurement

The easiest is once you have made the initial cut across the whole face is to zero the top slide dial and then use this to put on the cuts, I'm not sure of the distance but it looks to be 1/8" or 3.2mm so take say 4 cuts of 0.031" or 0.75mm.

If you don't want to do the dials or just want to check the measurement I assume you have a set of digital callipers in which case the rod that sticks out the end as you open them can be used as a depth scale.

Regarding your tapered bore, when you get towards the final cuts with the boring bar run it through the hole several times without putting on any more cut as this will allow the " spring" in the tool to work its way out. You will also find setting the 4-jaw becomes easier, yo get to know how much to turn the key to get the movement you want.

Edited By JasonB on 05/08/2013 20:11:34
5 August 2013 at 20:14 #126240
NJH
Participant
@njh
Hi Allan

I think the Victoria is a lovely looking engine and will run slowly and majestically when completed. I am tempted myself and am drawn to the "Double" version – but it's a bit expensive! I don't know if you are aware but a very good book has been written on the construction of Victoria by Andrew Smith. Out of print now I think but still available S/H from Amazon ( at a price I'm afraid!). Without wishing to put a damper on the proceedings to date it is usual on these models to split the bearings. The bearing is cut horizontally across the centre of the cast hole, the edges cleaned up, and the two parts soft soldered back together. The hole is then bored , a tapping drill put through the caps and the two parts reheated to separate them. The bottom part is tapped and studs fitted whilst clearance holes are made in the top caps. As well as authenticity it also makes assembly much easier!

Cheers

Norman
5 August 2013 at 21:22 #126244
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Hi Jason

Thanks, it is the diameter of the 'flange' that I found difficult, I may be misunderstanding but are you refferring to it's width, which I was ok with..

I could not understand from where to zero the scale or how to get the distance from the corner of the flat base in the chuck to the ouside diamer of the flange ie. the start point of the cut to turn down the diameter. Hope that makes sense (I have my doubts!).

I used a 11mm reamer for the bore as the hole was so small.

Cheers

Allan
5 August 2013 at 21:30 #126246
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Hi Norman

Yes I wondered about this. The book I have 'building the Victoria' describes this but suggests that each bearing is supplied already in the two half's. The book is several years though…

I think that for me at the moment I will not complicate things and leave them as one piece! I agree with your comments though.

Something I will look to do on future projects…

Regards

Allan.
6 August 2013 at 16:32 #126281
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Day 4.

A little more progress..

Drilled the 'bearing' fixing holes, drilled and tapped the oil holes, removed the split lines at the pedestal base..

Tapping the oil holes.

Oil cups and test fitting the 'bearings' on the base..

Not beautiful but a few lessons learned..

Regards

Allan

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 10:22:08
6 August 2013 at 18:25 #126293
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
I hope you are going to use studs and nuts on the finished engine rather than hex bolts

I built Victoria many years ago when it first came out

Roy
6 August 2013 at 20:31 #126312
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
HI Allan,

Every part for your first engine will be a learning experience, all rewarded in full when it finally runs under its own power!

If you look for 'one size smaller hexagon' nuts and screws, you will find they look more in proportion They can be obtained from many of the usual ME suppliers.

Neil
7 August 2013 at 08:44 #126357
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Hi Roy and Neil

Thanks, I had not thought of doing that – but yes that sounds good, I will see what I can find..

Regards

Allan
7 August 2013 at 09:09 #126359
Niloch
Participant
@niloch
Posted by NJH on 05/08/2013 20:14:29:

I think the Victoria is a lovely looking engine and will run slowly and majestically when completed. I am tempted myself and am drawn to the "Double" version – but it's a bit expensive!

I too am attracted to the twin/double Victoria but the cost of the castings is prohibitive. Does anyone know of a design for a similarly sized horizontal twin which relies mostly on fabrication?
7 August 2013 at 09:15 #126360
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
If you had the drawings I would say it can all be fabricated, maybe buy just the cylinders and flywheel castings for an easy life.

Tubal Cain did do a series in ME about building a slightly different version which used a lot of scratch built parts.

Anthony Mount's Sir William can also be done by fabrication, drawings were in ME
7 August 2013 at 16:33 #126401
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Day 5.

The crankshaft next. It is supplied in 3 parts, the shaft, crankweb and crankpin.

The components as supplied.

The Crankweb casting as supplied.

After some cleaning up 1.

After some cleaning up 2.

Hope to get it on the lathe tomorrow…

Regards

Allan

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 10:24:52

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 15:05:23
8 August 2013 at 16:34 #126473
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Day 6.

The holes put through the crankweb and machined to size. I really struggled with how to mark out the 1 inch hole centres. No square edges to help and the holes at different heights (I drilled through and marked out from the boss side, was I wrong to do that?) – anyway it gave me a real headache. I would love to know how I should have gone about this.

Next have to drill the through hole for the crosspin to attach to the shaft..

Regards

Allan

Edited By JasonB on 31/12/2014 15:06:18
8 August 2013 at 16:55 #126474
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
A lot depends on what you have available to you, a mill and DRO would be how I'd likely do it now but assuming you have a more basic workshop then something like this.

– Machine the back flat using the lathe

– Hold the machined face against an angle plate on your marking out surface or a square block will do with the pin end horizontal packing up the small end as required and scribe a centre line through the two bossesand use a surface gauge or preferably height gauge to mark a line across the centre of the two bosses

– Turn the casting 90deg sideways and using the height gauge mark the large boss centre – without moving the part raise the height gauge 1" and mark the ctr of the pin boss

-accurately dot punch the ctr punch the two centres and then transfer to the faceplate or 4-jaw to drill and bore/ream the holes.
8 August 2013 at 17:08 #126476
GarryC
Participant
@garryc
Hi Jason

Thanks, I follow all that except how would you get the centres of the two holes horizontal to mark the initial center line through the two bosses – given the shape of the casting. Apologies if that is a silly question – I bet it is!

Thanks again.

Cheers

Allan
8 August 2013 at 17:48 #126478
Anonymous
Being a coarse engineer I'd fudge it, as follows:

– Machine one side of casting

– Scribe a centre line along the long axis with a ruler; centre it on both bosses by eye

– Centre pop the larger end; again judge the centre of the boss by eye

– Set a pair of dividers to 1" with a ruler, and scribe location of second hole

– Centre pop second hole

– Set up in lathe and drill/bore as required

All you need is a ruler, dividers, scriber and hammer.

Regards,

Andrew

Edit: And a centre popper of course!

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 08/08/2013 17:49:21
8 August 2013 at 18:05 #126479
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
I assume you would make allowance in your divider setting for one boss being lower than the other and calculate the hypotinuse

As Andrew says it really by eye or you could set a pair of odd leg callipers to get a better idea of ctr if your eye is not that good, set it to approx half the dia and swing a few small arcs from around the edge, where they intersect is the middle.

One thing to watch when machining the holes is that you keep the flat back of the casting true to ensure the two bores are parallel, a bit of packing behind the jaws helps but remove it before turning or make sure it cannot fly out.
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