I'm sure many h&s dudes have good intentions but over-interpretation of the rules by councils is doing more to de-skill this society than the luddites ever achieved

I only know 3 garages for instance and not one is training any new apprentices because of the council clergy and their biblical interpretations of the rules

Society always swings in cycles and eventually there will be a dissolution of the monastries job on our councils so that the little guy, and ordinary society, can get ahead again

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose: The more things change, the more they stay the same

The problem isn't religion, or politics, it's genetics… it's darwinism, they can't help themselves

They have to run things, even if they're idiots with no grasp on reality, and the richer your society becomes, the more overpaid fools your society can afford, they flock to the free money and the fabulous early retirement pensions

Two world wars created a couple of serious speedbumps in this process but currently we're back to the same-old same-old.

Some amazing parallels with 1930s Britain are currently emerging, foodbanks, homelessness, crummy job prospects, everybody renting from private landlords etc etc and the BBC telling us all how fabulous everything is lol

Poor training is a major issue nowadays.

In the old days you had to work your way up from the bottom, the ground up, you earned your advancement

Nowadays you stumble out of university with a degree in politics clutched in one hand and get offered a job doing something you've had nothing to do with

Edited By Ady1 on 25/10/2015 14:00:16

For some reason many people seem to think that the old way of doing things which involved hundreds of people being killed or maimed at work every year was a golden age. I don't. Unless doing work paid for by a council, they have no authority to impose Health and Safety procedures on private industry, although they do seem to employ some jobswoths who think they do. All that is required under HSE legislation is that you consider what might go wrong, how likely is it, how badly would you get hurt, and then take action to reduce unacceptable risks. It's not rocket science, and having done that you can tell any interfering busybody to take a running jump. Even the much promoted PAT testing is not a legal requirement, all that is required is that you have procedures in place to ensure the safety of portable electrical equipment. If you have another way and someone competent to do it get on with it.

If you think Health and Safety is expensive, try having an accident. and someone getting hurt. There is an unfortunate tendency to use H&S as an excuse for inaction.

Edited By duncan webster on 25/10/2015 16:44:56

I agree with Ady on this issue of health and safety.I was a small builder and was happy to train apprentices.I always insisted that they followed my advice and used common sense as I was trained to do 54 years ago.They have all survived without an incident.I was working in a kitchen with an apprentice when the college supervisor arrived to assess him on the job.I was told that he must wear a hard hat and a viz jacket in the kitchen and that I must display a notice on the kitchen door stating that this was a building site.Lunacy.To pass his modules I was to take photographs of him wheeling a barrow ,posing on various tasks to meet the targets set.Lunacy.No wonder the trades are diluted as they are .There is no longer a decent appreniceship in any industry to be had .Why does one need an apprenticeship to be a shop assistant,nonesense.Like the interpretation of health and safety.Common sense is needed.

Frank

Frank,

I have an apprentice at the moment and on Thursday last week he asked me to take a picture of him cutting a hole in a piece of Perspex, later on he looked at the picture and said I cant put that into my work book.

He was not wearing, goggles, gloves, glasses and hi Vis, he was being supervised by me and I had carried out a mental risk assessment so could see no problem.

Martin P

We didn't seem to have all these problems until ambulance chasing became big business in the UK.

Is it my imagination or does daytime TV appear awash with compensation adverts?

Gordon.

Matin B – thanks for that link. I hope we all know the hazards of using emery cloth on the lathe (not to mention what the dust does for the bed!). I've forwarded this link to the guys at work for there use as a reminder. You right elf & safety does get a bad press but there are more people going home from work without injury these days.

John

No matter how much training, legislation and safety measures are introduced there's always one clever numpty who will beat the system. There will always be the correct and the four and a half pint way of doing things (and always has been), sadly, common sense has given way to the "multiple choice" answer. Started going wrong when practical lessons at school gave way to theoretical subjects.

Regards Ian.

As we are on about Health and Safety again, I will repeat a tale told to me by a friend who used to be a fireman.

One day the new health and safety officer visited the station where my friend was working. He had with him some "warning wet floor" signs which were to be used when the garage floor had been mopped. A few days later the station had a "shout" and during the rush to man the fire appliance, one of the crew tripped over one of these signs and broke his wrist.

Like Martin, I have some experience of H&S (as in sixteen years serving on a health and safety committee and our work included agricultural and forestry operations (that kill far more people than engineering each year).

One aspect of this is you hear a lot of horror stories. I can also say that actually putting good H&S practice in place never caused us any problems, and we had work going on from chainsaws and earthmoving equipment to kids using fire and knives. In sixteen years two notable accidents – one broken ankle caused by a poorly proportioned step and one claim for a bad back caused by falling into a skip. In the latter case a claim was thrown out because our 'needless' H&S paperwork showed that an RA had been carried out and safety talk given that specifically warned against doing what the claimant had done.

Most of the complaints about H&S come from people who have been subjected to the attentions of nitpickers who over-interpret the 'rules' or invent new 'rules' to suit themselves. The classic one is issuing everyone with hi-vis jackets rather than keeping people out of high-risk areas.

Neil

Phil I'm sorry but who would use a lathe or any other machine with gloves on?

Roy

I work with lightweight gloves on.

Nothing wrong with gloves it's where you put your hands. Anyone sticking their hands into rotating machinery whether with gloves on or not is going to get bit.