Scams on ebay

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Scams on ebay

This topic has 40 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 23 January 2015 at 08:39 by UJ Newton.

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15 May 2014 at 14:46 #152550
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
I feel that I should make people aware of a scam that is happening on ebay.

A seller with no or little feedback in a remote area (Scottish Highlands or Shetland) lists a machine . Usually with all accessories. There is often a carriage price and the items may be auction or buy it now. Needless to say if you do pay that will be the last you hear. I have experience of this as a company I work for got caught by it. Even if you pay by paypal you may not be covered. The police can do little ebay and the banks are not interested.

I post this as I saw an auction this morning for a Myford Super 7 multi purpose machine. I have reported it and it has now been removed.

If you see items like this I would urge you to report them to ebay as they do seem to remove them fairly quickly.

I know that many on this forum are pretty savvy when it comes to things like this but it is easy to forget that there are many who are not.

Sorry if this is old news but better safe…

David

Edited By David Colwill on 15/05/2014 14:47:47
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15 May 2014 at 14:46 #30493
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
Beware
15 May 2014 at 14:49 #152551
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
Ps

If I see another I will try to grab the text and images.

Alas I didn't have time this morning.

David.
15 May 2014 at 17:21 #152559
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Posted by David Colwill on 15/05/2014 14:46:50:

Even if you pay by paypal you may not be covered. The police can do little ebay and the banks are not interested.

I think a Paypal account has to be linked to a credit card, mine certainly is, if so why wouldn't you get your money back?

Tony
15 May 2014 at 17:26 #152560
Ian Parkin
Participant
@ianparkin39383
I had my listing words and photographs for a motorcycle stolen and then listed in the remote places you mentioned

I was notified by someone who had been watching my listing

he ( the villian) was asking roughly half what it was worth

I suppose some would buy unseen and have it transported to themselves.

But I'm interested in why paypal wont help?

as I understand if you dont get your goods you get refunded

Ian
16 May 2014 at 09:14 #152631
speelwerk
Participant
@speelwerk
Ebay scams are plentiful, if you are in doubt ask for a picture which is not in the advert, a genuine seller will make it and mail it to you proving that he/she is in possession of the item. You can also Google the item with the exact heading/text and see if it has been offered before, most of the time a scammer has no knowledge of the item and will use the same text in the advert. With Paypal always use the official Ebay-Paypal payment procedure than you are covered. Niko.
16 May 2014 at 09:45 #152637
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
Paypal does not have to be linked to a credit card mine is linked to a business bank account. The Paypal buyer protection has a number of exclusions of which number 12 is :-
1. industrial machinery used in manufacturing.
Personally I wouldn't take the risk given that the adverts for things that model engineers are likely to buy are placed in "business office and industrial".

Also I know that as a seller on the occasions that I use the auction format there are a large number of people who will try to strike a deal outside of ebay. Obviously DON'T do this.

Even if you can get your money back through Paypal be assured you will have to fight for it. It is much better to not get into that situation in the first place.

David.
16 May 2014 at 10:37 #152644
Robbo
Participant
@robbo
This scammer is well known to the "fraternity", and has engendered many posts on the Homeworkshop.org forum.

The advice to ask for more pictures, ask for a friend to inspect the machine (even of no friend exists,) are all good.

The seller sometimes claims to be due to sail on a fishing vessel etc, sometimes selling on behalf of relative, so has no time for visits

If payment other than Paypal or cash is requested its usually a bad sign.

If in doubt, walk away.
16 May 2014 at 10:56 #152646
Gordon W
Participant
@gordonw
Not all people living in remote Scottish places are dishonest scammers. I've had a chap with the usual "working offshore " story, he turned out to be a very decent guy, another one in remote Wales who "worked away " a lot, also a decent honest seller.. Of course there are plenty of dodgy people so you do have to be careful, and I've never had any trouble getting my money back thru' Paypal. Regards from remotest N Scotland.
16 May 2014 at 13:03 #152661
Trevor Wright
Participant
@trevorwright62541
I bought my Colchester Bantam off ebay from a guy in Fraserborough north of Aberdeen. Paid cash on collection (it was a 960mile round trip in a transit though).

There are good traders. Had a few messages and photos from the seller so I was sure he was genuine, and collected from his house.

Trevor
16 May 2014 at 17:26 #152678
Oompa Lumpa
Participant
@oompalumpa34302
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 15/05/2014 17:21:35:

Posted by David Colwill on 15/05/2014 14:46:50:

Even if you pay by paypal you may not be covered. The police can do little ebay and the banks are not interested.

I think a Paypal account has to be linked to a credit card, mine certainly is, if so why wouldn't you get your money back?

Tony

This is easy, go get yourself a "Pay as You go" Credit card from Morrisons, Tesco etc. And you are all set. Value of card could be as low as a fiver. And when you register the card online you can put any details you like in, so you can easily be confirmed at your non-existent address.

Bank account will cost you twenty five quid.

All too easy I am afraid.

graham.
16 May 2014 at 18:36 #152685
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Posted by Oompa Lumpa on 16/05/2014 17:26:48:

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 15/05/2014 17:21:35:

Posted by David Colwill on 15/05/2014 14:46:50:

Even if you pay by paypal you may not be covered. The police can do little ebay and the banks are not interested.

I think a Paypal account has to be linked to a credit card, mine certainly is, if so why wouldn't you get your money back?

Tony

This is easy, go get yourself a "Pay as You go" Credit card from Morrisons, Tesco etc. And you are all set. Value of card could be as low as a fiver. And when you register the card online you can put any details you like in, so you can easily be confirmed at your non-existent address.

Bank account will cost you twenty five quid.

All too easy I am afraid.

graham.

Yes I see how you could set up a 'dodgy' Paypal account but my money comes from shall we say a proper credit card account. So I believe if I don't get my goods the credit card organisation is duty bound to give me my money back, is that not correct?

Tony
16 May 2014 at 19:22 #152690
Boiler Bri
Participant
@boilerbri
There is a late series sts Boxford for sale, in Birmingham. Looked at it first hand yesterday . Worth every penny at 1200 quid.

They had it up for 1000 earlier so I am sure they will take an offer?

on eBay of course

Bri

Edited By Boiler Bri on 16/05/2014 19:23:17
16 May 2014 at 19:37 #152693
Oompa Lumpa
Participant
@oompalumpa34302
Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 16/05/2014 18:36:37:

<snippity>

Yes I see how you could set up a 'dodgy' Paypal account but my money comes from shall we say a proper credit card account. So I believe if I don't get my goods the credit card organisation is duty bound to give me my money back, is that not correct?

Tony

Yes Tony, you are quite right. It is section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The important point to note here is that if the card has the Visa or Mastercard logo's on the front of the card – you are covered. Even if it is a "Debit Card". (Despite what the person on the other end of the phone at your bank says – you need to talk to the Supervisor and leave them with no illusions you are au fait with this Act.)

The total purchase, and this includes the postage (so if the goods are £90 and the postage £10 = £100) you are fully covered.
16 May 2014 at 20:09 #152696
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
I bought a new pair of binoculars from a shop near here a while ago and paid by credit card (VISA). On examining the binos when I got home I could see a flaw in the coating of one of the lenses. I returned the binos for an exchange or refund but the retailer claimed the flaw was a sign of a superior lens (work that one out if you will) and refused a refund or exchange – he did not have another pair to exchange anyway!

Having got no joy I resorted to making a claim through the credit card people. I do not remember the detail of their reply safe to say that they refused to accept blame – basically they did not want to know so I was left out on a limb.

The day was saved by the UK distributors HAWKE. The boss man who was very nice got me to return the binos to them and he sent me a brand new replacement binocular at no cost.

The point I would like to make is this: When paying by credit card just don't assume that you are protected. My experience is that they will wriggle out of their responsibilities wherever they can.

Rik
16 May 2014 at 20:49 #152706
Oompa Lumpa
Participant
@oompalumpa34302
Posted by Rik Shaw on 16/05/2014 20:09:09:

The point I would like to make is this: When paying by credit card just don't assume that you are protected. My experience is that they will wriggle out of their responsibilities wherever they can.

Rik

Absolutely right. Do not assume you are covered. It matters very much how you approach the Credit Card company, being wholly truthful sometimes doesn't work for you. Sad but a sign of the times I'm afraid. Can guarantee the retailer "stretched the truth".

Well done to Hawke, I am in the market for a new pair of Binoculars and I will certainly look at them now.

graham.
16 May 2014 at 20:49 #152707
Tony Pratt 1
Participant
@tonypratt1
Hi Rik,

I know they will try to wriggle out of any obligation but if you start to quote the Consumer Credit Act they should pay up, if not there is the ombudsman or the small claims court.

I know it;s a pain but why let them get away with it?

Tony
16 May 2014 at 23:37 #152727
RJW
Participant
@rjw
The latest tack from banks, is that a buyer is Not protected under Section 75 of the act when paying a seller through PayPal via any form of Credit or Debit card!
The reasoning is that a third party has been involved, the banks are dealing with PayPal not the seller and will most likely reject any chargeback claims against a PayPal transaction!
I've not fallen foul of this (yet) but there appears to be quite a bit of media attention to it!

Also applies to Amazon & Google Checkout etc!
John.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/oct/28/paypal-credit-card-internet-protection

Edited By RJW on 16/05/2014 23:54:18
17 May 2014 at 00:26 #152731
Martin Cottrell
Participant
@martincottrell21329
Posted by RJW on 16/05/2014 23:37:17:

The latest tack from banks, is that a buyer is Not protected under Section 75 of the act when paying a seller through PayPal via any form of Credit or Debit card!
The reasoning is that a third party has been involved, the banks are dealing with PayPal not the seller and will most likely reject any chargeback claims against a PayPal transaction!
I've not fallen foul of this (yet) but there appears to be quite a bit of media attention to it!

Also applies to Amazon & Google Checkout etc!
John.

**LINK**

Edited By RJW on 16/05/2014 23:54:18

This is absolutely correct John as I found out last year. I bought some goods on EBay from a trader who used to advertise in ME magazine, paying using my Barclaycard via Paypal. The trader messed me about for several weeks failing to send the goods and after about 2 months I cancelled the order and logged a Paypal dispute to get my money refunded. It was then that I discovered that if you wish to lodge a Paypal dispute it must be within 45 days of the purchase transaction. As I was outside the 45 day period, Paypal refused liability and suggested I contact Barclaycard to obtain a refund. I contacted Barclaycard giving all the details in a lengthy claim procedure only to be told several weeks later that their Contract was with PayPal, not the rogue trader. They pointed out that Paypal had fulfilled their contract by paying the trader for the goods that I had ordered so there was no claim to be made against them. Basically I was stuffed!

Regards Martin.
17 May 2014 at 17:10 #152777
RJW
Participant
@rjw
Sorry to hear you got caught by this Martin!

These days I treat PayPal as a gamble, and never spend via that company more than I can afford to lose, which ain’t a lot!
Not for nothing did eBay and PayPal move their base of operations from Ireland to Luxembourg either, they were due to have their pants royally taken down by the financial services authority and trading standards, when they upped sticks and moved the whole shebang to Luxembourg, which of course operates outside and free from EU legislation!

If any items I’ve purchased via eBay don’t arrive within 7 days of the estimated arrival date, I file a dispute for non delivery, Period, that way, the claim is filed and there’s nowt a seller can do about it, it also gets logged against their seller profile if the dispute ends without a satisfactory outcome, which amongst other penalties, affects their search rankings and fee percentages!

Sellers based in China are it seems very adept at dragging out a delinquent sale beyond the 45 day cut off for a claim on non deliveries, if that happens you’ve little option then but to leave a scathing
Neg feedback comment!

The one recourse we all have against a seller that takes out money and doesn’t send goods, is through the small claims court, think the fee is now ?50 and the amount covered in dispute has been increased, you also had the option to have the summons served by a bailiff, don’t know if this option is still available!

One tip I would also give for eBay sales, is to wait until the invoice drops into the inbox before payment to ensure a seller’s name and address are stated, very often these days, sellers have no registered address or phone number on file and some if lucky only give a name and postcode and a mobile number!
Don’t know how they get away with this but it’s becoming more frequent!

John.
17 May 2014 at 21:17 #152803
ronan walsh
Participant
@ronanwalsh98054
Why are the police not interested in this scam ? It is fraud plain and simple, when you offer something for sale that you do not have or do not intend to deliver. Or is this just another one of those pesky crimes the police no longer concern themselves with ?
17 May 2014 at 21:34 #152806
Clive Hartland
Participant
@clivehartland94829
Are not them Police too busy doing historical sexual acts against celebrities now? If you are done over and it is obviously fraudulent and you have the persons details and go round and start remonstrating with them they will call the Police on you. You know what happens then, the Police will start on you as its easier to do! Sometimes if a thing looks too good to be true then it usually is. There is also the dreaded EU tax shambles if you buy from the other side of the Channel, it upped my payment by about 20% on a quality lens I bought from Holland. Of course if I sell that lens I will add that 20%

Clive
17 May 2014 at 22:51 #152811
David Colwill
Participant
@davidcolwill19261
The police will act but they do have the odds stacked against them. Also it isn’t eapsy to speak directly to them. All reports are made to action fraud who collect the information and pass it on. What happens next is not made clear to you. The company that I know who got caught by this haven’t heard anything for 2 months so make of that what you will. My purpose in making this post was to warn people who may find themselves on the wrong end of these scammers. I find it hard to believe the number of people who seem to think that they are protected by the likes of eBay PayPal and the banks etc. The only way to protect yourself is to not get caught in the first place.
25 June 2014 at 20:46 #156284
Alan Waddington 2
Participant
@alanwaddington2
If i suspect an item on Ebay is suspicious I usually do a google search for the item which invariably throws up the earlier genuine ebay sale that the scammer has cloned, having reported a few machine tools to ebay which are clearly fake listings I have to say they are positively glacial when it comes to removing them, and bids are often still being placed days later.

Quite often the seller will have multiple random items for sale, if you do the same google search on those items it will again throw up the original genuine sale which will have identical pictures and description.

Markers to raise suspicion include zero feedback, cheap "buy it now" prices, and remote locations

Apologies if I'm teaching granny to suck eggs, but judging by the amount of people bidding on some of these items, plenty must be blissfully unaware of the potential outcome.

Al.
26 June 2014 at 08:59 #156307
Rik Shaw
Participant
@rikshaw
Thanks for the info Alan. I had no idea this sort of thing was going on and no, certainly in my case, you are not teaching granny (or grampy) to suck eggs.

Rik
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