Stuart 10H and Score

Advert

Stuart 10H and Score

Home Forums Stationary engines Stuart 10H and Score

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #47699
    Doddy
    Participant
      @doddy
      No problems facing and boring the cylinder, set up around the outer edge with scribe block. just used a small vee block to spread the load on the webs – maybe some packing would help to prevent any marks
       

      milled the steam way then set to the required angle and nipped in the vice, centre drilled and then drill through to ports

       

      The three cylinders so far…….

       

      Advert
      #3049
      Doddy
      Participant
        @doddy
        #47701
        lancelot
        Participant
          @lancelot
          Hi David, when you come to fitting the cylinders to the frame bed…if the pitch circle dia. on the drawing is used I think you will find it very difficult to fit the nuts at the back of the cylinders…This is the ”Score” I am referring to, I really would like the pitch circle increased a bit on the drawing…I made the mistake of following the drawing and had one heck of a lot of ”fettling” to do plus had to use ”one size smaller nuts”…lucky not to scrap it.
          All the best for now,
                                             John.
          #47704
          Circlip
          Participant
            @circlip
            Might be worth checking that all the machined faces and the bore are square and true to each other David, boreing using the 4 jaw to hold the cylinder may be a bit suspect. Hope it is true.
             
               Regards  Ian.
            #47706
            Doddy
            Participant
              @doddy
              The rough casting was set in the four jaw and set to the rough cast outside edge using a scribing block then the front edge faced, followed by the bore (without moving from the chuck) this ensure the front face which bolts to the frame is square to the bore.
               
              A mandrel was then made to fit the bore – size for size (just warmed the cylinder with a hot air gun to shrink fit) then the outer face was turned
               
              The cylinder was then bolted to my face plate on the milling machine to square off to size the port face – will have to find the photo’s
              #47741
              Doddy
              Participant
                @doddy
                Many thanks lancelot for the tip RE: “fitting the cylinders to the frame bed” will check the PCD – thought I’d make the cylinder covers first then drill tapping size through with the cover/cylinder in place then open cover hole out to clearance size
                 
                #47934
                Doddy
                Participant
                  @doddy
                  Made up a chucking piece and had no problems machining cylinder top covers
                   

                  But now I need some advice – the Stuart drawings shows the Bottom Cylinder Cover which carries the gland housing say to drill and tap 5/16″ br 26tpi   ?    what thread is that – is it an ME thread (thought they were 32tpi or 40tpi) not sure if to go for M8x1.0 pitch or 5/16″BSF or do I make a nice little two bolt hole gland follower in brass using 10BA studding ?  I know it will be small an  fiddly  to nip up – any thoughts most welcome

                   
                  Any thought on were to spend my money on HSS taps and dies  ME or Metric ?
                  #47935
                  David Clark 13
                  Participant
                    @davidclark13
                    Hi There
                    5/16 x 26 is I think an ME series tap and die.
                    Tracy tools for new or the Toolbox in Colyton Devon for second hand.
                    regards David
                     
                    #47938
                    martin leslie
                    Participant
                      @martinleslie67699
                      Hi
                      Your thread is also a 5/16 Bscy or Cycle thread.
                      As found by the dozen on pre 1970 British Motorcycles.
                      #47940
                      Mike Rose
                      Participant
                        @mikerose73833
                        Hi
                         There also was one called British Standard Brass (BSB) which used 26 TPI for all sizes. I believe the thread profiles differ foreach standard.
                        regards Mike
                        #48853
                        Doddy
                        Participant
                          @doddy
                          Ok as I’ve not yet saved enough pounds, shillings and pence to buy some decent ME taps and dies I’ve made my Stuart 10H a nice little gland follower with 8BA studs, just enough room and should be able to get a spanner on to nip up the gland.
                           
                          I know the purests will frown on me not following the drawing, but as I don’t intend to run this on steam, I don’t think it to much of a problem, and I think it looks much better, but failing that I can always make the gland as per the drawing once I’ve spent some of (her in charge) money
                           

                          Gland follower using 8BA nuts and studs

                           
                          Dosen’t look much room but should be able to get an 8BA spanner on !
                           

                          Similar dimensions to the threaded gland follower on the drawing so should clear the Crosshead ?
                           

                          Edited By David Dodwell on 19/02/2010 16:49:25

                          #48854
                          Jeff Dayman
                          Participant
                            @jeffdayman43397
                            Looks great to me, well done.
                             
                            JGD
                            #48910
                            lancelot
                            Participant
                              @lancelot
                              nothing wrong with that… actually solves some of the inherent binding problems involved with the threaded gland type…keep her cutting David.
                                                                                                                                            John.
                              #49022
                              Doddy
                              Participant
                                @doddy
                                Posted by lancelot on 22/01/2010 17:15:35:

                                Hi David, when you come to fitting the cylinders to the frame bed…if the pitch circle dia. on the drawing is used I think you will find it very difficult to fit the nuts at the back of the cylinders…This is the ”Score” I am referring to, I really would like the pitch circle increased a bit on the drawing…I made the mistake of following the drawing and had one heck of a lot of ”fettling” to do plus had to use ”one size smaller nuts”…lucky not to scrap it.
                                All the best for now,
                                                                   John.
                                 
                                 
                                 Thanks John, your’re right, it is a little tight at 1 1/8th PCD so made mine 1 3/16″ PCD 
                                 
                                 

                                PCD 1 1/8th as per drawing looks a little tight !   so made mine 1″3/16th
                                 

                                Edited By David Dodwell on 22/02/2010 17:36:39

                                #49931
                                Doddy
                                Participant
                                  @doddy
                                  Wasn’t to keen on the Stuart “S” cast in the middle of the valve cover so made my own from a cast iron off cut
                                   

                                  Fabricated the crank – be-aware that the plans show the crankpin to be 5/8″ long – It’s not it’s 11/16″ (many thanks for the tip off “Pengwern”)

                                   

                                  back in the lathe to clean up crank webs

                                   

                                  Made some oil cups

                                   
                                  Crank installed and aligned – had to trim a few thou off the inner faces
                                   

                                   

                                  #49933
                                  NJH
                                  Participant
                                    @njh
                                    Hi David
                                     
                                    This is a very useful and interesting thread. I particularly like your ‘photos of components and set-ups. These, together with the tips you have received, should provide a valuable resource for builders of these or other Stuart models.
                                    Well done!
                                    NJH
                                    #49936
                                    Nigel McBurney 1
                                    Participant
                                      @nigelmcburney1

                                      hi  five sixteenth dia by 26 tpi is British standard brass thread the form is Whitworth with thread angle of 55 degrees,   brass thread all 26 tpi is commonly used on english models including stuart.  BSB also used on old gas fittings.  British cycle is different it has a 60 degree thread form.

                                      #50492
                                      Doddy
                                      Participant
                                        @doddy
                                        So how did you split the con-rod big end? – I was going to use a fine slit saw in the mill but struggled to find an easy way to hold it square, as it won’t fit my vice very well – then thought about using the Dremmel but again couldn’t hold it secure and square so gave up and used the Juinior hacksaw !  Big mistake !!   too much speed and not enough haste ? (see photo of the run off) – ended up making a new bottom half

                                        will be making a jig for holding the two con-rods for the Double next time – but here its OK now and installed

                                        #51453
                                        Doddy
                                        Participant
                                          @doddy
                                          Nearly finished
                                           
                                          made the eccentric up in the 3jaw

                                          Just some fit and finishing now

                                           

                                          Valves – Drain cocks and some pipework next and then the hardest part (for me!) how to paint and finish off – any help most welcome

                                          #51470
                                          Ramon Wilson
                                          Participant
                                            @ramonwilson3
                                            Hullo David,
                                            In response to your request for help in painting I think I may be able to offer a bit of help on that front.
                                             
                                            All the old adages on painting hold true except that oft heard phrase ‘A coat of paint covers a multitude of sins’. Quite simply it doesn’t but on the other hand it doesn’t take much effort and certainly less than you have put in so far with this very nice job of building this10H to achieve a reasonable finish. It is always a shame to see a nicely made model let down by a poorly applied paint job. 
                                             
                                            Achieving a good result depends on several factors but number one has to be good surface preparation followed by good compatible products and means to apply them.
                                             
                                            You have the choice of two methods – by brush or by spray – either aerosol or proper spraygun. ‘Generally’ – By brush it is better to use enamels or acrylics and apply cellulose products by spraying though these are getting more difficult to obtain in small quantities. Personally, though I have the means of both, I would unhesitatingly use a brush finish for what you intend at this time.
                                             
                                            The castings should be carefully degreased – acetone or cellulose thinner – spray gun cleaner available at car accessory shops is ideal. Then take the time to mask up those areas you wish to leave unpainted. I lay masking tape down on a piece of perspex and cut it to the widths I need with a scalpel and straight edge. I used to think of masking as a pain – a time barrier between ‘now’ and applying the paint. The time for the application of the paint is usually much less than that required for masking so I look at it from the opposite direction now – the masking is much the more important bit of the process.
                                             
                                            Once masked up the pores of the casting need to be filled. Ideally – if it’s still available use brush applied car cellulose grey primer. This is the only cellulose product you really want to apply with a brush. Brush on several thin coats – don’t be tempted to put it on thickly – if you do it will appear dry but will still be soft – when the next layer goes on you will drag it off. After about three coats give it a light rub over with wet and dry paper – about 320 grit and repeat it. Finish the final layer or two with 600 used wet. Your final colour finish (two to three coats maximum) will be dictated by these layers. By keeping it thin it can be applied quickly trying not to brush it out and going over the same area twice as this can/will cause dragging. Buy yourself a couple of nice brushes at an art shop. They don’t have to be expensive sable but buy good quality. I use 3/8″ wide flat synthetic bristle brushes (normally sold for water colour or acrylic application) one for primer the other for the colour.
                                             
                                            Enamel paint should be thinned slightly, standing the tin on a radiator to warm the paint or in a dish of fairly hot water – this will help the paint flow better. Do not try to get a perfectly even, opaque coverage on the first coat but concentrate more on a thin layer of uniform thickness . Let it dry well – preferably overnight – then cut it back gently with wet and dry 600 grit used wet sufficient for the second coat to adhere to. You should have a very nice smooth finish by the third coat at the most depending on the make of paint and colour chosen. Let it harden for at least week or so before trying to buff a finish into it with silver polish /brasso/T-Cut etc.
                                             
                                            Enamel paint will go successfully over cellulose but not the other way. Acrylic paint will also go over cellulose but may, possibly, exhibit a cracked finish in a short time. This is normally due to the paint below ‘moving’ which cellulose does over time. Acrylic is very hard and subsequently cracks. I have not used this combination on metal surfaces but have, to my cost, on a model aircraft, the whole lot having to be stripped off within a week of painting it. If you do decide to use acrylic then I would definitely use an acrylic base on the casting.
                                             
                                            Paints – nothing wrong with good old Humbrol, though I prefer ‘Japlac’. International paints are very good too though I don’t think they are available in the small 250ml tins anymore. And of course many others including the Phoenix paints though I have never used them. I would add to always use the recommended thinner. No doubt you can use ‘white spirit’ on some but if it goes wrong it’s too late.
                                             
                                            I hope the above gives you a start – no doubt others will add to this but any questions just ask
                                             
                                            Best advice is just take your time, don’t be in a hurry to apply the colour but get the sub-surface right first.
                                             
                                            Regards – Ramon
                                             

                                            Edited By Ramon Wilson on 06/05/2010 23:29:30

                                            #51496
                                            Doddy
                                            Participant
                                              @doddy

                                              Many thanks for that – any thoughts on the small steel parts such as the studs and nuts  ! do I need to laqucer them once polished or just leave them lighty oiled !

                                              #51497
                                              Ramon Wilson
                                              Participant
                                                @ramonwilson3
                                                Hi David,
                                                 
                                                Glad to be of help. Personally I have never felt the need to laquer the unpainted parts especially the steel as they will remain as they are if lightly oiled as you say, however the ‘brass’ parts will slowly darken if not kept pristine – reluctant to use the word polish as that’s not what I mean. Just  had a look at my last engine – this has sat unrun (indoors)for five or six years now but the brass is still ‘yellow’ and untarnished. If you don’t intend to run it but display it statically then perhaps you would need to laquer the brass parts. Rustins used to do a really good laquer though whether it is still available I’m not sure.
                                                 
                                                BTW if you decide to use Humbrol after the initial coats of primer it would pay to use their matt enamel to build up the ‘body’ before the couple of top coats – that way there is less rubbing down between coats to give the next layer to a surface on which to  ‘take’. If you want to use the matt enamel as a ‘filler’ you can add a small amount of talcum powder to thicken it slightly. That’s not  contradiction of previous ‘thinning’ – adding this gives the paint more body for a slightly quicker build up in the pores of the cast surface.
                                                 
                                                I checked at my local car accessory shop today – apparently they can no longer get grey primer other than in aerosols. Halfords do a good high build version like this I believe though I have not used it. If whatever the primer you use is cellulose based then when you are stisfied it is ready for finish painting let it dry out well to de-gas before putting on any enamel coats.
                                                 
                                                Hope this helps a bit more
                                                Regards  – Ramon
                                                #52043
                                                Doddy
                                                Participant
                                                  @doddy
                                                  Made some flanges and drain cocks, painted blue and mounted – called “Samual” after my son
                                                   
                                                   

                                                   

                                                   


                                                   
                                                  Just need to make a name plate now and ready to tackle my 3rd project the Stuart Score. I’ve learnt loads making this and feel a bit more confident and less of a beginner !

                                                  Edited By David Dodwell on 23/05/2010 20:14:25

                                                  #52044
                                                  Ramon Wilson
                                                  Participant
                                                    @ramonwilson3
                                                     
                                                    Very nice workmanship David,
                                                     
                                                    A splendid paint job and well presented on a nice base – it really looks the part.
                                                     
                                                    Regards – Ramon
                                                    #52045
                                                    Doddy
                                                    Participant
                                                      @doddy
                                                      Many thank Ramon for your advice on painting – I’m fairly pleased with the way its turn out – the base is a piece of English Oak from Richard Thompson – the “mouseman” of Kilburn – they sell off-cuts in the musuem/coffee shop at reasonably prices – well worth a visit
                                                    Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 31 total)
                                                    • Please log in to reply to this topic. Registering is free and easy using the links on the menu at the top of this page.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Latest Replies

                                                    Home Forums Stationary engines Topics

                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)
                                                    Viewing 25 topics - 1 through 25 (of 25 total)

                                                    View full reply list.

                                                    Advert

                                                    Newsletter Sign-up