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Respirators

This topic has 15 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 1 February 2012 at 21:21 by michael howarth 1.

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18 December 2011 at 14:57 #80014
michael howarth 1
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@michaelhowarth1
Can anyone give me some advice on which type of respirator I should be using for cellulose paint spraying in a workshop where the only ventilation is an open door. P3 types seem to be pretty good and filter 99.95% of airborne particles….I presume this includes vapours, which I take to be small particles…am I right? There is quite a variety/ price range of respirators out there….any guidance would be most welcome. I have been looking at the cadmium thread with interest….would respirators deal with that as well?
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18 December 2011 at 14:57 #30357
michael howarth 1
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@michaelhowarth1
18 December 2011 at 15:25 #80015
Roderick Jenkins
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@roderickjenkins93242
Mick,

A particulate filter will not necessarily deal with vapours. For this you will need something that will adsorb (sic) the vapour – this is usually activated charcoal. The PDF in his link may help: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Health/Safety/Resources/Four/ .

Be cautious about interpreting this document. Cellulose, for example, refers to a paper dust hazard. You will need to know what the cellulose paint solvent is to identify the correct cartridge or cartridges for protection.

Hope this helps,

Rod
18 December 2011 at 16:10 #80019
Springbok
Participant
@springbok
please just go to your local body car shop talk to the manager/Foreman/paintsprayer and they I am sure will give you serious advice as the have to work to the dreaded Elf and Safety.

Merry christmas

Bob
18 December 2011 at 16:20 #80020
Brian Dickinson 2
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@briandickinson2
These days they all seem to wear full air fed head screens which have a constant positive air pressure to stop fumes/vapours from getting in.

Expensive for home use, but it depends on how much you value your health?

Bri
18 December 2011 at 16:24 #80021
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
Hi Mick,

I think cellulose thinners is mainly toluene. Similar to benzene but with one of the hydrogen atoms in the benzene ring replaced with a CH3 group. This may help when looking for a suitable filter.

Les.
18 December 2011 at 16:58 #80026
michael howarth 1
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@michaelhowarth1
Thanks gents….it sounds a bit more complicated than I thought…..I shall ring round some sprayshops tomorrow to find the easiest way out of this. I am only using an airbrush on a small model but the fumes do build up and the last time gave me ” a bit of a throat”.
18 December 2011 at 17:55 #80031
Peter Tucker
Participant
@petertucker86088
Hi Mick,

My brotherinlaw uses a “spray booth” which is simply a cardboard box with an extractor fan ducted to the outdoors. Simple but efective.

Merry christmass.

Peter.
18 December 2011 at 18:46 #80034
AndyB
Participant
@andyb47186
Hi Mick,

I would go with Peter’s idea. If you are painting for any period of time you will find that the vapour displaces the available oxygen and no filter will help. Removal of the vapour is best. If you have the money then an air feed mask is what you need.

Andy
18 December 2011 at 21:20 #80041
Ramon Wilson
Participant
@ramonwilson3
Hi Mick,

Without appearing to be dismissive to those comments above I’d like to answer your request on a purely practical basis. As someone who has sprayed and brushed an awful lot of cellulose over the years and now paying the price I hope the following will prove useful.

After those years of using this product, mainly for model aircraft use, about seven or eight years ago I began to notice a distinct intolerance to it which appeared to increase on each use. The longer between each use the more distinct it grew. It is now to the stage that just a whiff of fumes just off a piece of rag leaves me feeling chesty and heady within a few minutes.

Several years back I was given a 3M paint spray mask to try which is designed for commercial but short time exposure in a spray shop environment. Wearing this while spraying or brushing has eliminated the problem totally. I have since bought them and though – in a commercial environment – their life expectancy is short I have not found this to be the case for home use. After each use mine is stored in a poly bag and the life useage has proved to last over many months if not years.

Obviously that will depend on how much exposure it gets over a given time but so far it has worked this way for me. That may not be correct useage I agree but as said earlier that is from practical experience and so far they have proved to continually work – there is not the hint of fume whilst wearing it for quite some time. The thing I like most about them over the conventional mask with filter cartriges is they are much more comfortable to wear and are very easy to breath through. If I remember correctly they are about a tenner each.

I took this tonight which should give you an idea of what they are like. The open one is that currently in use but is nearing it’s life as I could just detect a hint of fume the last time I used it doping a model aircraft.

If you are using just an arbrush to paint with then for low useage these would be more than adequate.

Beside ME I do have a lessor passion for plastic modelling and when not ME’ing am spraying constantly though mainly with acrylics which cause no problem. However there is a product called Alclad2 which, cellulose based, is very pungent and I cannot spray it without the mask above. Coupled with the mask I have fitted a small 4″ wall mounted fan beneath my bench which copes admirably in getting the fume out without causing a gale and items are sprayed in it’s general direction. A B&Q job, it must have been in use since around 03 and is really due for a change as it’s getting a bit rattle-ly

You can see from this that it really draws the paint in. It should be pointed out that with a high cellulose overspray this may present a fire risk – something to be borne in mind.

I hope that helps Mick, cellulose fume is not a very pleasant smell and contrary to what we all thought was a pleasnt smell of peardrops as a kid doesn’t exactly do your lungs a power of good – when I think of all that doping carried out over the years without any protection no wonder it’s finally taken effect

Good luck with your spraying however you tackle it

Regards – Ramon
19 December 2011 at 00:46 #80062
alan frost
Participant
@alanfrost17805
I must admit I did n’t take an awful lot of notice but was visiting a friend recently who is clearing a workshop , the owner of which did a lot of welding. I noticed that the workshop had a compressed air line running round the shop with an o/p to a welding helmet (presumably with a regulator to give a suitably low pressure ), and presumably to give a slight positive air pressure inside the welding mask to protect against some of the nasties which can be given off when welding automotive parts. I mentally noted it as a good idea. Full face shields (protective not welding ones ) can be bought for around £5 and a very flexible rubber pipe feeding the mask from ceiling height would protect against paint fumes and not be a terrible nuisance, and with a full face welding mask you get the same protection against welding fumes. There is of course no need for an airtight mask, just ensure a positive pressure inside the mask, and the airflow could be pretty low.

Have n’t tried it but as I say it seemed a very cheap way of getting an airfed headscreen, providing you have a compressor. And if you have n’t got a compressor already ,I’d recommend getting one anyway.. I have a few fancy machine tools but I certainly would n’t undervalue my less costly three good friends , my 4X6 bandsaw, my engine crane, and my compressor. They get used a lot..
19 December 2011 at 08:51 #80074
DMB
Participant
@dmb
Fumes from arc welding are dangerous – could cause cancer – presumably lung as a result of breating said fumes.

Tech. colleges teaching arc welding use an extractor hose in each welding booth.
19 December 2011 at 16:39 #80108
michael howarth 1
Participant
@michaelhowarth1
Thank you, gentlemen, for the abundance of advice on this subject. I think that in the long term, a hole in the wall with a fan and a spray booth….cardboard box sounds fine….is the way to go but I think that I will wait for warmer weather. In the short term I think that the 3M mask sounds quite effective. I have got a small compressor and I did have a welding mask somewhere, so that is also a feasible option for me. Thank you once again and a very merry Christmas to you all.

Mick
1 February 2012 at 20:10 #83645
nigel jones 5
Participant
@nigeljones5
You must not breathe unfiltered air from a compressor unless it is of the oil free variety – definate no no.
1 February 2012 at 21:10 #83649
Francis Sykes
Participant
@francissykes95134
A few notes from me:

– Air fed masks for automotive spraying are normally where two pack isocyanates are being sprayed, they give off cyanide in their use. Unfortunately this is at the same time as being about the best paint for vehicles.

– Air fed masks have an estimated or foam skirt that seals around your face. Without this, there would be quite a loss in effectiveness and a great increase in air consumption. A proper air fed mask demands upwards of 6cfm in use. That’s going to be a 2hp compressor minimum, which would be on the limit. There is then no spare capacity for the spraygun if you’re using that.

– A previous reply mentioned filtration of the compressed air supply. At 2hp + the machines will be oil lubricated. Normally a special filter set is used, with extra fine filtration, an oil and a water separator. The mask will have a belt with a carbon filter on it. A set up, compressor, mask and filter I think is going totaled you to around ?450 plus.

– For cellulose vapour, yes air fed would be great, but a mask with the tight vapour filters would work.

Hope this helps.
1 February 2012 at 21:21 #83650
michael howarth 1
Participant
@michaelhowarth1
I bought a 3M cartridge filter mask to finish the job I was doing and found it excellent with no cellulose vapour getting through. Thanks Nigel and Frances for the further advice on the air fed equipment. Given the small amount of spraying that I do it would probably be overkill anyway. Must admit though, I never thought about the oil suspended in the compressed air.
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