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O rings

This topic has 12 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 10 April 2022 at 19:50 by Neil Lickfold.

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8 April 2022 at 01:55 #593479
Kiwi Bloke
Participant
@kiwibloke62605
O rings, performing static sealing duty, on hydraulic rams on the front-end loader on my tractor fail slowly, apparently by extrusion. The design could have been better: seal back-up rings would probably have helped. Unfortunately, modification isn't practicable. The loader gets abused and treated badly. Unfortunately, my bad behaviour probably also can't be modified…

At present, common-or-garden nitrile rings (2.25 X 0.125 in) are in place. Does anyone know whether a different material might have greater resistance to extrusion?
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8 April 2022 at 01:55 #30215
Kiwi Bloke
Participant
@kiwibloke62605
Failure by extrusion
8 April 2022 at 03:40 #593480
jimmy b
Participant
@jimmyb
Would "X" section rings be any use?

Jim
8 April 2022 at 04:09 #593481
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
Viton O rings seem to seal better on old motorbike applications. But no idea under hydraulic pressure.

Edited instead of mine, JB

Edited By JasonB on 08/04/2022 07:03:21
8 April 2022 at 07:02 #593486
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
Viton also resist some oils better and like nitrile come if different hardnesses the harder the higher the pressure they can take
8 April 2022 at 07:49 #593492
HOWARDT
Participant
@howardt
You could try a harder material. The extrusion gap between the two parts increases with harder material. Dependant on o-ring x section and groove form you may be able to use a different form of seal, contact a seal manufacturer with dimensions and see what they can offer.
8 April 2022 at 10:03 #593508
Ex contributor
Participant
@mgnbuk
Change your design to include PTFE Back-up rings on the side of the O-ring suffering from extrusion.

PTFE backup rings

Nigel B.

(just noticed your comment re-not feasible to re-design – sorry !)

Edited By mgnbuk on 08/04/2022 10:04:13
8 April 2022 at 21:11 #593603
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
The suggestion for a harder material from HOWARDT would be a good start. Either the clearances are too great, or the O ring material is being softened by the hydraulic fluid. Viton is likely to be harder than nitrile, and much more resistant to hydraulic fluid.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-O-Ring-Seals/c19_4501/index.html

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-O-Ring-Seals-VITON-O-Rings/c19_4501_4706/index.html?selection=VITON+Rubber+O-Rings

Edited By old mart on 08/04/2022 21:15:00

Edited By old mart on 08/04/2022 21:21:47
9 April 2022 at 08:34 #593651
AdrianR
Participant
@adrianr18614
Does your ram have guide rings? are they worn? if they are it increases the gap on one side which makes extrusion worse.

You could also look at the SKF DPV seals https://www.skf.com/binaries/pub12/Images/0901d196805e7f09-17145-EN-_Piston-seals_tcm_12-289553.pdf#cid-289553

Adrian
10 April 2022 at 07:01 #593806
Kiwi Bloke
Participant
@kiwibloke62605
Thanks for the suggestions, folks. I'll see if it's possible to get more robust O rings, but we have to take what's available here in 3rd-world NZ – a seriously restricted range of engineering stuff in a country without an engineering heritage… I know the rest of the world is but a few clicks away, but I'm old-fashioned, and prefer to shop conventionally.

To clarify: the O ring seals the end of the cylinder to the body of the cylinder, so it's not a sliding seal. There is no true piston seal in this super-crude (but elegantly simple) design (Kiwi engineering at its best/worst). The dynamic seal is located in the removable end of the cylinder, acting on the ram's outer surface. There's also a wiper seal. The O ring sits in a groove in the seal-carrier (the removable end of the cylinder), and seals against the OD of a turned-down section of the cylinder, the seal-carrier being screwed onto the cylinder.

The designers should have given the O ring an easy life, but it's exposed to full hydraulic pressure, including the effects of a bucket-full of soil, etc., bouncing around when driving over uneven ground. Goodness knows what the peak pressures can be. I suppose it's doing quite well, all considered. Ideally, the O ring's groove should be widened, so a back-up ring can be fitted, but that takes time, whereas replacing the O ring takes minutes…

Edited By Kiwi Bloke on 10/04/2022 07:04:19
10 April 2022 at 09:19 #593813
noel shelley
Participant
@noelshelley55608
Hi KIWI, For harder rings ask for shore 90, the nornal O ring is shore 70. It might be worth trying a metric ring of slightly larger dimension eg 3.5 mm section X 50mmID. For what they cost it's worth a try. Noel.
10 April 2022 at 18:24 #593876
old mart
Participant
@oldmart
Viton is most easily obtained in 70 shore hardness, but as it is likely to be more resistant to hydraulic fluid, it will not tend to soften and be extruded like the nitrile you are using.

You haven't mentioned the name of the hydraulic fluid you are using.
10 April 2022 at 19:50 #593884
Neil Lickfold
Participant
@neillickfold44316
If you go to Seal Imports, one in Hamilton NZ, they make seals on a special seal making lathe. They used to have a hydraulic engineer working there who designs seals and know all about the appropriate material to be using. Their prices are very reasonable as well for specially made seals too. Our work gets them made there.

There is also another seal making place in Auckland, not sure if it is connected to Seal Imports or not.

Neil
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