Identifying Monel metal rivets

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Identifying Monel metal rivets

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  • #559993
    Bob Worsley
    Participant
      @bobworsley31976

      Tidying up and came across several bags of rivets. Some obviously aluminium, but some I assumed where steel, but not really magnetic. Further looking suggested they were monel.

      Each of the rivets has two centre punch marks on the end, and after lots of searching this seemed to be the identifying mark for monel.

      Has anyone any ideas please?

      These rivets were bought many years ago in a sale and the lot consisted of many bags of these and other items plus stainless tube etc. Labels quite clearly stated they were all part of a modification kits for Harrier aircraft, just about when they were all scrapped. Steel rivets would not be a sensible item to be used, but monel in the aluminium airframe could be.

      Monel is the material to use in boiler making, but not if they turned out to be cheese! Bang!

      They are 3/16" diameter snap head and various lengths around 1/2" to 3/4" long. Calculating specific gravity and come out a little lighter than the monel 8.8.

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      #30159
      Bob Worsley
      Participant
        @bobworsley31976
        #560007
        ega
        Participant
          @ega

          One indication is that they are very hard work to set by hand!

          #560032
          Michael Gilligan
          Participant
            @michaelgilligan61133
            Posted by Bob Worsley on 27/08/2021 10:37:10:

            […]

            Calculating specific gravity and come out a little lighter than the monel 8.8.

            .

            The Wikipedia page is quite helpful : **LINK**

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monel#Properties

            If you are meticulous with your SG experiment, you may even be able to identify the grade from those tabulated.

            MichaelG.

            #560037
            duncan webster 1
            Participant
              @duncanwebster1

              For the cost of known copper rivers I wouldn't risk using unknown material.

              #560064
              old mart
              Participant
                @oldmart

                I would not think that monel rivets would be used in conjunction with aluminium in a Harrier airframe. The monel is rather hard compared to aluminium and there are dangers of corrosion. There are riveted steel parts in the hot areas which would be more suitable applications. Try beating one of the monel rivets on a smooth steel plate, or squeeze it if you have a powerful enough press and see how ductile it is.

                #560081
                Speedy Builder5
                Participant
                  @speedybuilder5

                  Monel rivets were used to rivet aluminium alloy to stainless steel in aircraft of the 60's – VC10s, 1-11s. I don't remember them being annealed though. Typical use was the interface between stainless and later titanium jet tube and aluminium structures.

                  Al Alloy Rivets were coloured – Black for Aluminium, Purple for Al Alloys, Green, Gold and self colour were predecessors to the purple rivets used pre VC10 era (Viscounts, Vanguards etc). The Green, Gold and self colour had to be annealed before use and could only be set during certain hours of the day – instant dismissal if wrong colour at wrong time of day. Reason –

                  Green would be annealed and would grow "harder" after 6 hours and could not be 'set'.

                  Gold would be annealed and ready 6 hours later than Green.

                  Self colour another 6 hours later.

                  I don't remember the exact timings and the above is just an example of timings. Any rivets that had 'gone off' were returned to stores and re heat treated. If I remember correctly, rivets for a job were called up the day before use, each job had its work sheet identifying material, size and shape and quantity.

                  I worked on VC10 wing build for a short time during my apprenticeship, the riveting noise of 20 fitters or so was loud by todays standards and no ear muffs were worn by anyone (1964). My collection of rivets came from the floor sweeping once the completed wing was taken out of the jig.

                  Follow this link if interested in Monel rivets on a/c

                  monel rivets

                   

                  Edited By Speedy Builder5 on 27/08/2021 21:09:26

                  #560120
                  Bob Worsley
                  Participant
                    @bobworsley31976

                    Thanks for the information.

                    I found

                    https://www.rivetsonline.com/rivet-data

                    which gave the identification information.

                    Most web information are for the use of monel rivets in aluminium masts etc on boats, so there can't be any corrosion problems.

                    It is seriously hard work to crush end ways one of the rivets, but 3/16" is large, a steel rivet needs 5 tonnes to set it cold, doubt a vice is anywhere near that.

                    Thanks Bob, I also have tins of muticoloured alloy rivets,

                    Monel is also of use other than boiler stays, but lots of short lengths isn't so useful.

                    Looks like it joins the bags of titanium bolts and pop rivets as possibly useful.

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