Little experience so advise needed

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Little experience so advise needed

This topic has 14 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 30 July 2019 at 09:51 by not done it yet.

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29 July 2019 at 12:48 #421431
Chris TickTock
Participant
@christicktock
hi Guys let me first say I have both a Sherline Mill and Lathe. My hobby ney obsession is old clocks. I wish to learn how to machine parts for platform escapements namely the balance staff which is approx 20mm long and are some type of steel, no doubt then hardened. This is micro machining. my initial questions relate to the fact that it is inevitable I will cock up a good few attempts so what material should I use to practice on for starters? I have taken advise on cutters and setup but any other advise including suppliers of Micro-100 carbide bits appreciated.

regards

Chris
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29 July 2019 at 12:48 #29942
Chris TickTock
Participant
@christicktock
Materials for experience
29 July 2019 at 13:18 #421439
Michael Gilligan
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@michaelgilligan61133
Welcome, Chris

Don't waste your energy experimenting with other steels … Buy some 'Blue Pivot Steel' from one of the reputable supply houses: It is properly heat treated; which, of course, what imparts that lovely blue colour.

… and beware : Some ebay Sellers are listing 'Steel suitable for making blue pivot steel' [or some such nonsense]

MichaelG

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P.S. where are you located ?
29 July 2019 at 15:11 #421465
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
The right equipment for the job is a Super Adept lathe
29 July 2019 at 16:38 #421479
Chris Evans 6
Participant
@chrisevans6
Chris, where in the world are you based ? for practise turning you won't go far wrong with EN1A. Then buy your "Blue Pivot Steel" if you are close to Lichfield I can give you some bits to play around with.

Chris.
29 July 2019 at 17:08 #421490
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 29/07/2019 16:38:56:

… for practise turning you won't go far wrong with EN1A …

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Well that's me told

MichaelG.
29 July 2019 at 21:28 #421538
Chris TickTock
Participant
@christicktock
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 29/07/2019 13:18:26:

Welcome, Chris

Don't waste your energy experimenting with other steels … Buy some 'Blue Pivot Steel' from one of the reputable supply houses: It is properly heat treated; which, of course, what imparts that lovely blue colour.

… and beware : Some ebay Sellers are listing 'Steel suitable for making blue pivot steel' [or some such nonsense]

MichaelG

.

P.S. where are you located ?

Hi Michael I live on the Cambridge area. thanks for the post guys.

Chris
29 July 2019 at 22:01 #421543
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 29/07/2019 16:38:56:

Chris, where in the world are you based ? for practise turning you won't go far wrong with EN1A. Then buy your "Blue Pivot Steel" if you are close to Lichfield I can give you some bits to play around with.

Chris.

If you're buying it in and you have the choice, EN1APb is even better to machine. The modern ref is 230M07 PB.

The lead stops it sticking to the top of the tool and developing the dreaded built up edge
29 July 2019 at 22:52 #421555
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Chris Evans, and Duncan Webster

Perhaps I was mistaken, but I thought Chris Judd wanted to practice turning things like balance staffs [see his opening post].

I know no-one who could make a useful 20mm long balance staff from EN1A [with or without added lead], so what is the point of him wasting his efforts practicing on that ?

The cutting characteristics of Blue Pivot Steel are surely what he needs become familiar with.

MichaelG.
29 July 2019 at 23:05 #421557
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Christopher judd on 29/07/2019 21:28:45:

.

Hi Michael I live on the Cambridge area

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I have sent you a PM [personal message] Chris

Please check your Inbox [icon on the top green bar of this page]

MichaelG.
30 July 2019 at 00:12 #421564
duncan webster 1
Participant
@duncanwebster1
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 29/07/2019 22:52:46:

Chris Evans, and Duncan Webster

Perhaps I was mistaken, but I thought Chris Judd wanted to practice turning things like balance staffs [see his opening post].

I know no-one who could make a useful 20mm long balance staff from EN1A [with or without added lead], so what is the point of him wasting his efforts practicing on that ?

The cutting characteristics of Blue Pivot Steel are surely what he needs become familiar with.

MichaelG.

I read it that the OP wanted something easy to start with before attempting pivot steel
30 July 2019 at 07:15 #421580
Roger Hart
Participant
@rogerhart88496
As said blue pivot steel is the stuff to use. The problem is that you can't easily harden the staff after making – you burn the pivots. So it has to be made from a good grade of steel hardened to spring temper from the get go.

A read of some of Donald de Carle's books might be an idea. The Web has a pdf. Also getting a pair of pivot files left and right (and they are not cheap if new). To check the size I have made a temporary staff from brass, easy and quick.

Usually hand turning with a lozenge graver is the traditional way but I could never get on with that tool and used engraving tools. Experiment, you will surely end up making a few before you settle on a technique that works for you.

You 'can' polish the pivots in the lathe but it is a bit risky. Some sort of support like a Jacot tool makes it less likely to bust the pivot at the last moment (v annoying).

You can also make a simple turns and do the job between centres. Make a little pulley, some cotton thread and a motor and you are good to go.

Enjoy.
30 July 2019 at 08:52 #421590
Ron Laden
Participant
@ronladen17547
Good here isnt it, I had never heard of Blue Pivot Steel, learn something everyday.

Ron
30 July 2019 at 09:47 #421608
IanT
Participant
@iant
You don't have to build clocks & watches to use watch-makers materials and tools Ron, they are very useful to model makers too. Don Gordon (a builder of small scale boats) wrote a very good series in ME in the 80's called "Low cost, High Precision" – well worth a read for any small scale modeler. Don used pivot steel to make very small diameter drills when required for instance.

You can get it in various sizes from Cousins UK. I purchased packs of assorted sizes from them some years ago and it can be a useful source of hard, small diameter steel.

Regards,

IanT
30 July 2019 at 09:51 #421611
not done it yet
Participant
@notdoneityet
Ron,

Not sure if it is mentioned above, but the blue simply refers to the colour to which the material was historically tempered, after hardening. These days, they simply use temperature, rather than the colour, for controlling the tempering process, as it is(or should be) far more precise.
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