#10 stock?

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#10 stock?

This topic has 14 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 29 April 2019 at 09:31 by bugbear6502.

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23 April 2019 at 10:36 #406142
bugbear6502
Participant
@bugbear6502
(note; I do not own a functioning lathe)

I want to fit an extra shelf in a kitchen cabinet. A shelf is just a bit of plywood, but I need more of the little pins (that fit in the holes in the carcase) to support the shelf. The carcase is fully drilled out with a rack of holes in all positions.

I think the kitchen is from the 1980's, and made by "Xey", a Spanish company.

I've carefully measured an existing pin, and the size is very odd.

It's 0.1935 inches, which is 4.915 mm.

Googling shows me this is (number size) #10 (which is VERY surprising for a Spanish company). A kitchen fitter has told me these pins are "always" 5mm.

I have checked 3 pins with 2 different micrometers. It's definitely #10, despite my kitchen fitter's advice.

Can I get #10 material in the UK? I can see American suppliers with it, but I've found no one in the UK.

Failing which, how feasible is it to reduce 5mm drill rod diameter by the requisite 0.085mm (3.3 thou), using the hallowed electric drill and wet 'n' dry method?

The carcases are chipboard, so enlarging the hole by the requisite tiny amount would be tricky and error prone.

BugBear
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23 April 2019 at 10:36 #29912
bugbear6502
Participant
@bugbear6502
23 April 2019 at 10:45 #406144
Mike Poole
Participant
@mikepoole82104
I think I would get some 5mm rod and file a small lead and push it in, I think it would push in and be a good firm fit, if it is too tight then a polish with emery will get you where you need to be, it is unlikely that 5mm rod will be dead on size and is often a bit under.

Mike
23 April 2019 at 11:00 #406147
Antony Price
Participant
@antonyprice56876
Hi BugBear

Googling brings up

24mm long “Metal Shelf Support PEGS Stud PIN PEG Kitchen Cabinet 5MM Hole” (Amazon)

At £2.63 including delivery would it e worth a punt to see if they are what you are looking for?

Tony
23 April 2019 at 11:03 #406148
JohnF
Participant
@johnf59703
Agreed Mike—- Bugbear 0.003” interference between the steel pin and wood is nothing, it will fit easily, differently story if the cupboard carcass was metal !
23 April 2019 at 11:18 #406150
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Your kitchen fitter is quite right, these pins are always 5mm, at least that is what I would have said, never having seen any that are not 5mm (to the naked eye).

5mm though is the nominal size and I doubt any kitchen equipment manufacturer specifies a tolerance!

Its best if the pins are a tight fit (might need a light tap with a hammer) so they do not drop out just at the wrong moment.

Ian P
23 April 2019 at 11:32 #406152
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by bugbear6502 on 23/04/2019 10:36:20:

… I have checked 3 pins with 2 different micrometers. It's definitely #10, despite my kitchen fitter's advice.

.

You have measured the pins, but have you measured the holes ?

I suspect that the commercial pins are nicely sized for a nominal 5mm hole !!

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/04/2019 11:32:32
23 April 2019 at 11:47 #406153
Ian P
Participant
@ianp
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/04/2019 11:32:01:

Posted by bugbear6502 on 23/04/2019 10:36:20:

… I have checked 3 pins with 2 different micrometers. It's definitely #10, despite my kitchen fitter's advice.

.

You have measured the pins, but have you measured the holes ?

I suspect that the commercial pins are nicely sized for a nominal 5mm hole !!

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/04/2019 11:32:32

Measuring hole diameters in chipboard/particle board will open a whole new can of worms. Even if the diameter could be measured to micron resolutions, what would one do with the knowledge?

I presume the object of the OP is to put up a shelf. I can see that if the pin and hole diameters were not consistent across all (four?) pins, or some were much tighter fit than the others, then the shelf might not be truly level, (assuming the carcase holes were level to start with)

Ian P
23 April 2019 at 11:57 #406154
Dalboy
Participant
@dalboy
I have a packet of pins that have a little right angle to them (They are one piece) I just measured them and they are just under the 5mm. These are the ones I have
23 April 2019 at 12:12 #406155
JasonB
Moderator
@jasonb
As someone who makes bespoke kitchens and other cabinets the standard size is 5mm, dowel drills are 5mm and all studs and other cabinet fittings are made to suite 5mm nominal holes.
23 April 2019 at 12:12 #406156
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Ian P on 23/04/2019 11:47:37:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/04/2019 11:32:01:

Posted by bugbear6502 on 23/04/2019 10:36:20:

… I have checked 3 pins with 2 different micrometers. It's definitely #10, despite my kitchen fitter's advice.

.

You have measured the pins, but have you measured the holes ?

I suspect that the commercial pins are nicely sized for a nominal 5mm hole !!

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/04/2019 11:32:32

Measuring hole diameters in chipboard/particle board will open a whole new can of worms. Even if the diameter could be measured to micron resolutions, what would one do with the knowledge?

I presume the object of the OP is to put up a shelf. I can see that if the pin and hole diameters were not consistent across all (four?) pins, or some were much tighter fit than the others, then the shelf might not be truly level, (assuming the carcase holes were level to start with)

Ian P

.

I am aware of the difficulty of measuring the holes accurately, Ian

… I only commented for the sake of emphasis

I am quite sure that the holes are nominal 5mm, and the pins are toleranced accordingly.

MichaelG.
23 April 2019 at 12:26 #406159
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Here's a sourcing hint: **LINK**

https://www.ikea.com/gb/en/customer-service/faq/returns-and-product-issues/#1364308956462

MichaelG.

.

P.S. IKEA at Ashton under Lyne demonstrates a very enlightened attitude … a rack of 'commonly requested' spares is provided, on a help yourself basis !!
23 April 2019 at 13:03 #406164
bugbear6502
Participant
@bugbear6502
As members will know, measuring a hole is a good deal harder (or requires less common equipment) than measuring a pin.

I can say that only one of the holes I tried (there's a whole rack of holes, to allow shelf repositioning) would accept the back end of a 5mm drill bit (which I checked to be very close to 5mm).

I will order 5mm stock (or pins), try to fit them (possibly with a "tap&quot and possibly emery them down a bit.

Thanks to all for your advice and thoughts.

BugBear
23 April 2019 at 13:18 #406165
Hopper
Participant
@hopper
Usually those pins are a tight fit in those holes and require a bit of gentle persuasion with a hammer.

Measure the holes? In chipboard? Stuff started sucking moisture out of the air and swelling up the minute it left the factory. Could be all over the place by now. Any measurement would be meaningless. Refer to big hammer!
29 April 2019 at 09:31 #407014
bugbear6502
Participant
@bugbear6502
Conclusion to the tale; since my pins were 16mm long (not the standard 25mm), I ordered 5mm silver steel to make my own.

Checking it would NOT go in the holes (bar one!). An electric drill and some 100 grit SiC was used to reduce the stock, checking with a mic to try to keep it reasonable parallel. The stock got very hot.

Starting at 0.197 (imperial mic!) it kept checking. At 0.194 the stock started to slide into some of the hole, so I didn't take it down to 0.193. I then sliced my workpiece down into 16 mm slugs, with a nice chamfer filed on the ends.

I think the accuracy of this fit is coming from the formica (or similar) surface of the carcase. I'm pretty certain that chipboard can't be worked to these tolerances.

Thanks again to all for your practical advice and experience.

BugBear
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