Cyanoacrylate and Quicklime

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Cyanoacrylate and Quicklime

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  • #29710
    Neil Wyatt
    Moderator
      @neilwyatt
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      #297979
      Neil Wyatt
      Moderator
        @neilwyatt

        Has anyone come across 'Supa-Fix'? I picked up a box with two bottles of cyano and a bottle each of 'grey' and 'black' calcium oxide powder. The in-store demo was impressive, suggesting the combination produces a rock-hard, gritty textured substance that was able to joining wood to steel very effectively.

        It would appear that the calcium oxide does more than catalyse a quick set, but presumably it undergoes some chemical change, perhaps creating a cyano-reinforced limestone?

        I must admit, I haven't tried it yet, but it looks fun.

        http://www.platinum-supplies.com/supa-fix-everbuild-adhesive-powder-kit-super-glue-apx4-ultra-strength-supafix.html

        #297983
        jason udall
        Participant
          @jasonudall57142

          I use “standard” CA and sodium bicarbonate. ..baking powder…

          #297989
          Bill Davies 2
          Participant
            @billdavies2

            …And the bicarb is said to provide the small amount of water to cause the CA to set. However, I would have expected the calcium oxide to be devoid of moisture as it would immediately react with any (i.e., quicklime converted to slaked lime). So perhaps it does act as a catalyst. But it sound like an unpleasant and very reactive ingredient in the adhesive or cement.

            Bill

            #298003
            Neil Wyatt
            Moderator
              @neilwyatt

              Their blurb says 'like concrete' and it certainly is. I guess it could work very well to fill cracks in castings not exposed to temperatures above 180C.

              Neil

              #298010
              mark smith 20
              Participant
                @marksmith20

                I found a patent for a bio-adhesive composition and it says calcium oxide can be added as a `heat dispersant`, so its any ones guess what happens, other than as a filler.

                superglue can react with many things. Ever drop any on your cloths. I had a minor burn on my leg after spilling a load onto my jeans .

                #298023
                matt merchant
                Participant
                  @mattmerchant42413

                  sounds interesting, can think of a few unconventional uses depending on the cure time

                  #298024
                  jason udall
                  Participant
                    @jasonudall57142

                    Cure time for bicarb is truly rapid. .sensibly instant…
                    Works as filet
                    Can be filed..just very hard bonds well to steel
                    Wood plastics
                    Not great on ali ( way better than raw)..
                    Best effect .. wet both surfaces.. add sprinkle of powder…add further to build fillet as required

                    #298040
                    Georgineer
                    Participant
                      @georgineer
                      Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/05/2017 18:11:19:

                      Has anyone come across 'Supa-Fix'? I picked up a box with two bottles of cyano and a bottle each of 'grey' and 'black' calcium oxide powder. ..

                      Since calcium oxide is white, there must be additives in these powders, possibly fillers of some sort.

                      Geo.

                      #298043
                      stevetee
                      Participant
                        @stevetee

                        It's been available in the motor trade for some years , but I expect the price will have come down somewhat now. I believe the filler powder may well contain a catalyst for the superglue. As other have said it forms a very hard and quick repair on may substrates.

                        #298064
                        Neil Lickfold
                        Participant
                          @neillickfold44316

                          Blasting soda is a free flowing baking soda, so it pours quite well. Makes for a very hard compound. Another we use as a wear strip is a combination of blasting soda and carborundum powder. I use it for a landing skid on my model planes.

                          Neil

                          #298174
                          Neil Wyatt
                          Moderator
                            @neilwyatt
                            Posted by mark smith 20 on 13/05/2017 20:26:31:

                            I found a patent for a bio-adhesive composition and it says calcium oxide can be added as a `heat dispersant`, so its any ones guess what happens, other than as a filler.

                            superglue can react with many things. Ever drop any on your cloths. I had a minor burn on my leg after spilling a load onto my jeans .

                            I have heard that it can set cotton on fire.

                            #298179
                            Muzzer
                            Participant
                              @muzzer

                              As well as excluding oxygen, moisture and metal salts help CAs to go off. Humid clothes contain both, as well as large surface area in a small volume. I believe the "activator" sprays basically provide the metallic salts.

                              Most of these reactions are exothermic and the rate of reaction increases with temperature. Same is true of epoxy (Araldite) and car filler (MEKP?). I can tell you that if you add the hardener (or whatever it's called) neat, you can get that to burst into flames, which is presumably why it is generally supplied in a diluted form. With Araldite, if you heat it up, the reaction is quicker which can be useful, although initially it becomes more fluid – which can also be helpful.

                              Murray

                              #298180
                              Muzzer
                              Participant
                                @muzzer

                                As well as excluding oxygen, moisture and metal salts help CAs to go off. Humid clothes contain both, as well as large surface area in a small volume. I believe the "activator" sprays basically provide the metallic salts.

                                Most of these reactions are exothermic and the rate of reaction increases with temperature. Same is true of epoxy (Araldite) and car filler (MEKP?). I can tell you that if you add the hardener (or whatever it's called) neat, you can get that to burst into flames, which is presumably why it is generally supplied in a diluted form. With Araldite, if you heat it up, the reaction is quicker which can be useful, although initially it becomes more fluid – which can also be helpful.

                                Murray

                                #298192
                                Tim Stevens
                                Participant
                                  @timstevens64731

                                  I suggest that the 'calcium oxide' which is supplied is not actually quicklime, but slaked lime. I have three reasons:

                                  1. Quicklime is fairly dangerous stuff, and is no doubt covered by all sorts of regulations. Slaked lime is much more friendly, even available at posh builder's merchants in lime mortar.

                                  2. Quicklime is eager to absorb moisture, so has to be in a tightly sealed container, even in the factory where it is made. When this has occurred it turns into slaked lime (hydrated calcium oxide). So why not supply the non-noxious stuff?

                                  3. If moisture helps c-a to polymerise, there is no advantage (in this respect) in adding a compound which absorbs moisture itself.

                                  And it may be that the resulting set product with calcium is less soluble in water than with sodium (from bicarbonate) – thus extending the usefulness of the product.

                                  But what do I know about it, anyway?

                                  Cheers, Tim

                                  #298205
                                  KWIL
                                  Participant
                                    @kwil

                                    Very good stuff Neil and useful too. Good filler for plastic parts when you have a hole to cover up. Cracked saucepan handles etc.

                                    #298213
                                    Gordon W
                                    Participant
                                      @gordonw

                                      This may be off topic, but lots of people here seem to know about such things – My stainless steel hot water cylinder seems to have a very small leak, in the bottom. I am thinking of draining and cleaning out as best I can, then pouring some " stuff" in. Any suggestions ? Dia. is about 400 mm, max. temp about 70 C and will be wet all the time

                                      #298294
                                      Bill Davies 2
                                      Participant
                                        @billdavies2

                                        Vehicle Radiator sealant? Sodium silicate aka water glass. Not sure how well it would adhere to stainless steel.

                                        Bill

                                        #298315
                                        Neil Wyatt
                                        Moderator
                                          @neilwyatt
                                          Posted by Tim Stevens on 15/05/2017 10:08:06:

                                          I suggest that the 'calcium oxide' which is supplied is not actually quicklime, but slaked lime. I have three reasons:

                                          1. Quicklime is fairly dangerous stuff, and is no doubt covered by all sorts of regulations. Slaked lime is much more friendly, even available at posh builder's merchants in lime mortar.

                                          2. Quicklime is eager to absorb moisture, so has to be in a tightly sealed container, even in the factory where it is made. When this has occurred it turns into slaked lime (hydrated calcium oxide). So why not supply the non-noxious stuff?

                                          3. If moisture helps c-a to polymerise, there is no advantage (in this respect) in adding a compound which absorbs moisture itself.

                                          And it may be that the resulting set product with calcium is less soluble in water than with sodium (from bicarbonate) – thus extending the usefulness of the product.

                                          But what do I know about it, anyway?

                                          Cheers, Tim

                                          It's calcium oxide, the box wouldn't be plastered in warnings if it was slaked lime, and why claim it's something dangerous if it isn't?

                                          Neil

                                          #298472
                                          Tony Jeffree
                                          Participant
                                            @tonyjeffree56510
                                            Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 08:20:39:

                                            Posted by mark smith 20 on 13/05/2017 20:26:31:

                                            I found a patent for a bio-adhesive composition and it says calcium oxide can be added as a `heat dispersant`, so its any ones guess what happens, other than as a filler.

                                            superglue can react with many things. Ever drop any on your cloths. I had a minor burn on my leg after spilling a load onto my jeans .

                                            I have heard that it can set cotton on fire.

                                            It has an exothermic reaction with polyester fabrics too.

                                            #298474
                                            not done it yet
                                            Participant
                                              @notdoneityet
                                              Posted by Gordon W on 15/05/2017 11:41:50:

                                              This may be off topic, but lots of people here seem to know about such things – My stainless steel hot water cylinder seems to have a very small leak, in the bottom. I am thinking of draining and cleaning out as best I can, then pouring some " stuff" in. Any suggestions ? Dia. is about 400 mm, max. temp about 70 C and will be wet all the time

                                              Your risk if you want your house flooded. The cylinder may be weak in that area and just waiting to fail in a big way! Is this a gravity system or at mains pressure?

                                              As far as temperature is concerned, I've yet to see a hot water cylinder that is hot at the bottom. Water is a very good insulator.

                                              #298513
                                              Gordon W
                                              Participant
                                                @gordonw

                                                Thanks for replies. Just got the thing exposed. There is a very minor leak at the bottom, small de-humidifier just about copes with it. Had considered sodium silicate but it needs heat to set and will probably dissolve again. This is only about two years old and had to rebuild the cupboard again. Fed up. Have considered chucking the whole lot away and replacing with separate water heaters.

                                                #298516
                                                Eugene
                                                Participant
                                                  @eugene

                                                  Be aware that Bicarb and Calcium oxide will not form a water resistant compound with a superglue type adhesive; both dissolve in water.

                                                  If you want to try a waterproof material I'd suggest slate powder, but in the case of a domestic cylinder thats already in failure mode, I'd bin it anyway.

                                                  Eug

                                                  #298529
                                                  Russell Eberhardt
                                                  Participant
                                                    @russelleberhardt48058

                                                    Whatever happened to copper hot water tanks? They used to last 50 years or more. Now we have steel ones and are lucky if they last ten years. OK they are cheaper but they are more expensive in the long run.

                                                    Russell (having recently had to change a leaking hot water tank sad)

                                                    #298558
                                                    mark costello 1
                                                    Participant
                                                      @markcostello1

                                                      Over here We have "glass lined" heaters. Cut one open and try to find the glass! laugh

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