Allen key screw heads

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Allen key screw heads

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  • #250243
    Frank Small
    Participant
      @franksmall87776

      Hi Guy,

      I am presently building a Stuart V10 steam engine and am a relative beginner. I chose to use BA fasteners rather than metric.

      U Tube's Tinker John suggested using screws with Allen key heads to ease trial assembly, an excellent suggestion, in my view.

      Does anyone have any Idea where I could obtain miniature screws, either BA or Metric with Allen key heads suitable for the above task?

      Thank you for your interest

      Regards

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      #29617
      Frank Small
      Participant
        @franksmall87776
        #250245
        JasonB
        Moderator
          @jasonb

          The uneven numbered socket head screws are very hard to find so you will have a job getting the 5BA and 7BA sizes that you need. Even 2, 4 & 6 are a bit easier to get but not much use to you.

          You could get slotted cheese head screws from most of teh ME suppliers.

          #250247
          Peter Layfield
          Participant
            @peterlayfield

            Hi, Try Items mail order, brilliant little firm, ( 01427848880) I use them on a regular basis, and quick

            response, regards Peter

            #250249
            Michael Gilligan
            Participant
              @michaelgilligan61133

              Frank,

              RS components is worth a look … They stock some very small sizes.

              **LINK**

              http://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/fasteners-fixings/screws-bolts/socket-screws/#esid=4294956105&applied-dimensions=4294855863,4294855866

              I'm sure there are suppliers who will sell you smaller quantites, maybe at better unit prices.

              I would, however, recommend using only high quality screws [Unbrako or Allen for example] at small sizes.

              MichaelG.

              #250253
              MW
              Participant
                @mw27036

                The sort of socket screws i have are completely useless, the head twists off under any sort of pressure, looks like i'll be going back to old fashioned studding and nuts!

                Michael W

                #250262
                Emgee
                Participant
                  @emgee

                  Hi Frank

                  Even if you are able to find a supplier of socket cap screws in the smaller BA sizes I think you will find the cost prohibitive.

                  Emgee

                  #250266
                  Nigel Bennett
                  Participant
                    @nigelbennett69913

                    I'd forget about using BA sizes unless you happen to find a convenient source of supply. Metric are much easier to find now, and eBay will usually throw up a number of suppliers in the small quantities needed.

                    It all rather depends on whether you've tapped the holes in your engine already!

                    There was a supplier at the Doncaster show who sold stainless steel metric fasteners from about M1,6 upwards at about a quid a bag. (Turbo Trade UK 07926 256551, www,turbotradeuk.co.uk according to my programme).

                    My last couple of locos have all sorts of fasteners both metric and BA, because that's what I happened to have at the time. I've often tapped out BA nuts to the next larger metric size as this often gives a good "scale" appearance.

                    #250267
                    Michael Gilligan
                    Participant
                      @michaelgilligan61133

                      4-40 UNC might be a useful size

                      **LINK**

                      http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/socket-screws/3763956/

                      MichaelG.

                      #250271
                      JasonB
                      Moderator
                        @jasonb

                        Actually just looked at my 10V and its almost all 7BA which will be very hard to find. So its either a case of use the provided fixings from the start or if you have not started yet then change to M2.5 and get easily available metric cap heads. Then once complete make up some studs and use small hex nuts from Polly or direct from GHW

                        As you say using the cap heads during construction is easy particularly with a ball hex driver and saves marking teh nuts when you will be taking things apart and reassembling several times. I do the same.

                        #250347
                        mechman48
                        Participant
                          @mechman48

                          I am actually using the supplied fixings – 5 & 7 BA; I have just received a 12" length of 7 BA studding…  a pack of 7BA x 1" studs, plus a pack of 7 BA 1/2 nuts ( lock nuts  ) x 50 – £2.24, from EKP supplies. Also a pack of 10 of 5BA x 1/8" cup point socket grub screws GKN, for model Eng./steam from e bay seller 'boxesfull' … £3.85p… usual disclaimers, so they can be had fairly easily.

                          George.

                          Edited By mechman48 on 11/08/2016 16:16:15

                          #250350
                          Vic
                          Participant
                            @vic

                            Just out of interest, can I ask why some of you are using BA fasteners rather than metric? Metric are so much easier to get hold of and I suspect in most cases much cheaper. I can sort of understand if you're of advancing years and using up old stock though. smiley

                            #250358
                            JasonB
                            Moderator
                              @jasonb

                              Stuarts supply fasteners so you may as well use them

                              7BA cuts quite nicely onto supplied 3/32" stock and 5BA onto 1/8" stock

                              Unless you track down the small hex metric fixings that I linked to earlier standard size metric nuts and bolt heads look out of place on a period engine and there may not be enough room for them

                              Thats 3 reasons.

                              #250359
                              mechman48
                              Participant
                                @mechman48

                                Verily I be one of those of advancing years… have BA & ME taps & dies… & fittings came with the kit… so… face 20

                                George.

                                #250382
                                Neil Wyatt
                                Moderator
                                  @neilwyatt

                                  Reminds me that Screwfix seem to have dropped their very useful 6mm M3 countersunk allen key screws – ideal for 'hidden' fixings.

                                  #250388
                                  Frances IoM
                                  Participant
                                    @francesiom58905

                                    Srewfix seem to have dropped nearly all of their useful fixings – Toolstation carry the near identical stock and are usually cheaper

                                    #250474
                                    Nigel Bennett
                                    Participant
                                      @nigelbennett69913

                                      Hex socket countersunk screws can be very prone to the hexagons rounding off – you need well-fitting Allen keys of the right size, and a good fit in the socket. Remember that one way to remove a hex socket screw with a rounded-off socket is to batter in a suitably-sized Torx driver and unscrew it with that. Done that a lot with chewed-up screws!

                                      #250475
                                      JasonB
                                      Moderator
                                        @jasonb

                                        Or just use regular M3 cap heads into a counterbored hole for hidden fixings, the larger hex socket is less prone to damage

                                        #250479
                                        Jon Gibbs
                                        Participant
                                          @jongibbs59756
                                          Posted by Frances IoM on 11/08/2016 21:06:36:
                                          Srewfix seem to have dropped nearly all of their useful fixings – Toolstation carry the near identical stock and are usually cheaper

                                          …and free next day delivery on £10 or more.

                                          FWIW, for fasteners I've also been using AHC Camberley via their Amazon store AHC. They're worth a look.

                                          HTH

                                          Jon

                                          #250481
                                          KWIL
                                          Participant
                                            @kwil

                                            Toolstation is co-owneI by Screwfix and Travis Perkins. I second AHC Camberley, but can pop in there as required.

                                            #250524
                                            Anonymous
                                              Posted by KWIL on 12/08/2016 12:15:06:

                                              Toolstation is co-owneI by Screwfix and Travis Perkins. I second AHC Camberley, but can pop in there as required.

                                              When was that? Travis Pekins owns Wickes and Toolstation, Kingfisher still owned B&Q and Screwfix a couple of months ago, is it something recent?

                                              #250537
                                              Alan Vos
                                              Participant
                                                @alanvos39612

                                                Posted by Frank Small on 11/08/2016 07:56:42:

                                                U Tube's Tinker John suggested using screws with Allen key heads to ease trial assembly, an excellent suggestion, in my view.

                                                I am *very* slowly building an S50. For trial assembly I have found that 1/4" drive BA sockets work very well. Just the sockets, hand held. BA sockets are readily available in all likely sizes. There is one side effect which might offend, repeated used of the sockets polishes rings around the hex heads.

                                                #250752
                                                Frank Small
                                                Participant
                                                  @franksmall87776

                                                  Hi Guys,

                                                  Many thanks for your help.

                                                  It will take me time to follow up on your very useful suggestions but I would just like to respond to one comment/question.

                                                  This is my first attempt at a model engineering project and I thought it might be better to adhere to the BA system as per my instructions in case I created any unanticipated difficulties even though I was aware that metric has probably superseded the BA. Now I have a good selection of small BA taps and dies so I feel I am tied to that system for the present

                                                  Regards

                                                  #250766
                                                  Vic
                                                  Participant
                                                    @vic

                                                    I must admit that some imperial nuts and bolts look better than metric ones. It seems to be the ratio between thread diameter and nut/head size. Anyone know why metric seem to have larger heads/nuts?

                                                    #250776
                                                    Michael Gilligan
                                                    Participant
                                                      @michaelgilligan61133
                                                      Posted by Vic on 14/08/2016 18:54:15:

                                                      I must admit that some imperial nuts and bolts look better than metric ones. It seems to be the ratio between thread diameter and nut/head size. Anyone know why metric seem to have larger heads/nuts?

                                                      .

                                                      Yes, I'm afraid so, Vic …

                                                      The preferred clearance holes for general purpose Metric fixings are bigger [in proportion to the thread size] than Imperial ones … Therefore the heads need to be bigger !!

                                                      This is particularly noticeable on caphead hex socket screws … Go Compare 8mm with 5/16" BSF

                                                      Imperial capheads were proportioned for toolmaking, etc.

                                                      Metric capheads appear to be proportioned for IKEA self-assembly furniture.

                                                      I'll get off the SoapBox now.

                                                      MichaelG.

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