Duralium??

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Duralium??

This topic has 39 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 3 May 2016 at 10:32 by NJH.

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21 April 2016 at 21:54 #235645
christopher olson
Participant
@christopherolson21818
im looking for some dural sheet around 16swg for a large radio control sailplane I'm building (half scale) I'm looking for a reliable source to get dural as in the past iv been passed stuff that was obviously not dural and given the size of this model I'm building I need the "real" stuff .

Does anyone know of a good supplier?

Chris.
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21 April 2016 at 21:54 #29594
christopher olson
Participant
@christopherolson21818
22 April 2016 at 08:52 #235680
Brian Wood
Participant
@brianwood45127
Hello Christopher,

If you don't get any recommendations, try a Google search http://www.goodfellow.com is an early listing

Brian
22 April 2016 at 08:58 #235681
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Christopher,

**LINK**

Very knowlegeable, and helpful supplier.

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … [see here]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/04/2016 09:06:40
22 April 2016 at 09:17 #235685
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
Christopher,

Look for HE15 or 2014.

Also consider using carbon fibre laminate, it's lighter and stronger.

Emgee
22 April 2016 at 09:22 #235686
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Dural etc is a trade name so these days you need a spec designation. It tried to paste what the wiki has to say about duraluminium, it lists several of the 2000 series which replace duraluminium but the stupid forum wont let me copy paste from there now so best go look.

**LINK**

I'd suspect 2017 may be what you would ideally want.

John

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22 April 2016 at 09:51 #235690
Circlip
Participant
@circlip
6082 T-6

Regards Ian.
22 April 2016 at 09:55 #235692
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Aalco 2014A might be another.

John

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22 April 2016 at 10:02 #235695
Neil Wyatt
Moderator
@neilwyatt
Lets me paste it OK?
- 2011: Wire, rod, and bar for screw machine products. Applications where good machinability and good strength are required.
- 2014: Heavy-duty forgings, plate, and extrusions for aircraft fittings, wheels, and major structural components, space booster tankage and structure, truck frame and suspension components. Applications requiring high strength and hardness including service at elevated temperatures.
- 2017 or Avional (France): Around 1% Si.^[9] Good machinability. Acceptable resistance to corrosion in air and mechanical properties. Also called AU4G in France. Used for aircraft applications between the wars in France and Italy.^[10] Also saw some use in motor-racing applications from the 1960s,^[11] as it is a tolerant alloy that could be press-formed with relatively unsophisticated equipment.
- 2024: Aircraft structures, rivets, hardware, truck wheels, screw machine products, and other structural applications.
- 2036: Sheet for auto body panels.
- 2048: Sheet and plate in structural components for aerospace application and military equipment.
22 April 2016 at 10:20 #235701
Michael Gilligan
Participant
@michaelgilligan61133
Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/04/2016 08:58:40:

P.S. … [see here]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/04/2016 09:06:40

.

This ^^^ was evidently too subtle
22 April 2016 at 10:47 #235711
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Aalco mention that 2014A machines well. Aalco have branches all over the place but I am not sure how they sell but might be cut to requirements.

Too subtle for me Michael. I like to see where I am going.

John

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22 April 2016 at 10:49 #235712
Speedy Builder5
Participant
@speedybuilder5
Without seeming alarmist, If it is half scale, then would it be considered as a "proper aeroplane" and be subject to Aviation rules and regs for construction? In which case, choice of material may have to be more specific, records of batch numbers, stress calculations etc etc.
I would be very careful in accepting any material spec without knowing its application.
All the same, good luck with your project.
BobH
22 April 2016 at 10:56 #235713
AlanW
Participant
@alanw96569
If this is for wing-joiners, I thought carbon fibre rod in tubes was the current preferred option.

Alan
22 April 2016 at 10:59 #235714
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Seeing mention of carbon fibre I received some bar from these people today very promptly. Hyperflight.

**LINK**

Chosen because they mentioned ultra high modulus and a high fibre content. A common trick on carbon fibre is not much fibre but plenty of resin.

John

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22 April 2016 at 11:18 #235717
Anonymous
Larger (over 7kg) radio controlled models come under the Air Navigation Order with respect as to where, and how, they can be flown. I think this is primarily because they can have significant kinetic energy and can do a lot of damage if things go pear-shaped. However, they are regarded as unmanned aircraft, so I don't think that there are any specific regulations regarding construction.

The aluminium alloy 2024 is precipation hardening and after heat treatment gains strength over time. It is not easy to form when hardened and tempered. It has a tendency to crack when folded. It can be formed, and rivets closed, when annealed. However, unless facilities are in place to heat treat the parts there seems little point in using it as none of the advantages will accrue. As an aside 16swg is rather thicker than the sheets used on the full size metal sailplanes I've worked on.

Andrew
22 April 2016 at 12:03 #235724
Ajohnw
Participant
@ajohnw51620
Even 3m gliders go a long way when they are bought down and get closer to the ground. I had a lot of interest in these some time ago but finding somewhere suitable to fly them proved to be a problem. Air brakes are essential in my view even at that size.

John

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Edited By Ajohnw on 22/04/2016 12:04:40
22 April 2016 at 12:23 #235725
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
What part of the plane do you need 16 swg/.064" metal for? The skin of an average light aircraft is 2024-T3 Alclad ranging from .020" to .032". You would have to purchase it through an aircraft maintenance company. This is also the thickness used for making ribs, etc.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 22/04/2016 12:28:18
22 April 2016 at 13:32 #235739
christopher olson
Participant
@christopherolson21818
Firstly let me thank you all for your very informative and thorough replies I will follow up on all the links and look into the "2014" alloy as I had come across a supplier for this material.

Secondly let assure everyone I'm an experienced glider guider and I'm fully aware of the legislation regarding the building and operating of larger models .the "dural" I require is to replicate the scale fittings which secure the wings onto the top of the fuzulage and the flying struts (it's an early 1930's hutter H17)and the use of carbon in this area wouldn't follow good scale practise I will also be making various other scale details with this light but strong material .once again thank you all for your help.
22 April 2016 at 13:40 #235741
Emgee
Participant
@emgee
My understanding is that if built in the UK to comply with the CAA regarding models above 7kg the model will need to have inspections by a qualified person during construction stages, the inspections are made to confirm the integrity of the design and materials used and the standard of workmanship. Further details can be found on the Large Model Association (LMA) web pages.

Perhaps Christopher can advise on the specific use for the 16swg sheet.

Emgee
22 April 2016 at 14:20 #235747
christopher olson
Participant
@christopherolson21818
The large model association is a very useful resource for anyone needing information regarding the build,use and flying of the larger RC models, I would recommend anyone contemplating a large model do their research and comply with all the regulations that apply to that area of the hobby. My model will by virtue of the real one will be quite small for half scale at around 5 metre span and won't be overtly heavy as the full size was an incredibly lightly built sailplane it will be under the 20 kg scheme which the LMA officiate.

I have found some suitable materiel and will be ordering it this weekend many thanks for your interest and help.

Thanks chris.
22 April 2016 at 14:29 #235748
Anonymous
I think I'll stick to flying the full size versions!

I have a technical question though. Presumably the wing to fuselage fittings are secured with pins? Do you know what materials the full size glider used? All the wood/fabric/metal gliders I have flown and worked on used steel pins and fittings, even if, as in the case of the Olympia 463, the spars were bonded light alloy.

I believe that aluminium-copper alloys were developed in Germany, so presumably it is entirely possible that the fittings were light alloy.

Andrew
22 April 2016 at 15:33 #235763
christopher olson
Participant
@christopherolson21818
Hi Andrew I'll be turning up the steel retaining pins on my almost new Axminster/seig c1 which I collected just this week i just need to order some tooling, but I won't be doing them until my wings are built which will take some time now as its flying season and not building season lol ! I could use aliuminuim but at 1/2 scale it's prudent to use steel. The wing is secured in my model exactly the same way as the fullsize with pins and clips.i used to fly sailplanes with the Colchester and Suffolk gliding club but work got in the way of really getting beyond solo, however iv been a lifelong aeromodeller and recreating scale models is something I find very rewarding and next years project (a1/3 sopwith pup) is already being researched.
23 April 2016 at 10:28 #235847
Anonymous
Chris: Thanks for the information; it sounds a pretty impressive project. How are you planning to launch the glider, presumably it'll be too big to hand launch?

Andrew
23 April 2016 at 13:34 #235869
Ian S C
Participant
@iansc
One popular launch method here in NZ is the aero tow, often using a model Pawnee, or similar aircraft. Another method used here is a winch. I imagine these methods are fairly universal. The only really big model I'v come across is a C-130 Hercules with 4 chainsaw motors, it require clearance from the tower at Christchurch airport even though it operates from a strip quite a few kilometres away. I,v seen at least one glider model with a retractable motor.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 23/04/2016 13:52:03
24 April 2016 at 04:20 #235915
Bill Pudney
Participant
@billpudney37759
You could also look at the 7075 range of alloys, these are pretty much the highest mech. properties, except for elevated temperature (over 150 to 200 degrees C) use when the 2024 series takes over.

It machines well, beautifully in fact in the harder tempers, for instance T651.

Best of luck

cheers

Bill
Author

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