Can someone throw light on a steel specification?

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Can someone throw light on a steel specification?

This topic has 21 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 20 May 2014 at 13:18 by Carl Wilson 4.

Viewing 22 posts - 1 through 22 (of 22 total)

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19 May 2014 at 14:26 #29515

Carl Wilson 4

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@carlwilson4

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19 May 2014 at 14:26 #152934

Carl Wilson 4

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@carlwilson4

Hello chaps,

I am reading through an old RAE report from the early 50s. It mentions a mild steel spec BSS.S1. I suspect it mighthave a DTD equivalent number but can't find any info. Does anyone here know anything about it?

Much appreciation in advance,

Carl.

19 May 2014 at 15:06 #152937

Russell Eberhardt

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@russelleberhardt48058

Could this be it? **LINK**

Russell.

19 May 2014 at 15:18 #152938

John Stevenson 1

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@johnstevenson1

S1 is a tool steel ?

http://www.westyorkssteel.com/tool-steel/s1/

edit for clicky link.

Edited By John Stevenson on 19/05/2014 15:19:05

19 May 2014 at 15:38 #152940

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hello Gents,

Thanks for the prompt replies. John, it isn't the tool steel, I know what you mean though. BSS is an old British Aircraft Industry standard but I can't find much on BSS.S1. There are things like BSS.62 which is a ferritic stainless steel, and BSS.B251 which is a brass. A lot also have DTD numbers. Considering how widely they were once used there doesn't seem to be much info out there.

So, Russell, you are right, it is the S1 shown on the aero vintage site. Just no spec.

Thanks again for your searching. I'm going to keep looking, please feel free to shout if you find anything!

Carl.

19 May 2014 at 15:54 #152942

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hold on…Think BSS.S1 may now be called BS 7s1, as follows:-

Weight%	C	Si	Mn	P+S	Pb by agreement	Limited Ruling Section
7S1 GpA	0.15-0.25	0.1-0.35	0.6-0.9	0.04 max	0.15-0.35	0-19mm
7S1 GpB	0.25-0.35	0.1-0.35	0.6-0.9	0.04 max	0.15-0.35	19-29 mm
7S1 GpC	0.3-0.4	0.1-0.35	0.6-0.9	0.04 max	0.15-0.35	29-

Well maybe…

19 May 2014 at 15:58 #152943

John Stevenson 1

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@johnstevenson1

Does this mean I have to tie a rope round me chest and delve into the library ?

19 May 2014 at 16:28 #152944

David Jupp

Participant

@davidjupp51506

BSI do have a lot of withdrawn standards still available for purchase – (won't be cheap, but should be definitive if they can help) see this for contact details of their knowledge centre.

7S 1 1964 replaced 6S 1 1953

Edited By David Jupp on 19/05/2014 16:32:20

19 May 2014 at 18:13 #152953

John Stevenson 1

Participant

@johnstevenson1

OK got the 1940 Aeronautical Handbook
Bags of info on all different steel grades
Only problem is its the S.A.E. book so everything is American !!!
You want propeller boss standards ? Magneto mounts ?

I got it in US speak

Now if you know the ANSI for S1 I can tell you what's in it !

Sorry

Edit for spelling

Edited By John Stevenson on 19/05/2014 20:11:21

19 May 2014 at 22:17 #152977

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hello,

Thanks for delving into the wilds of the library! Thanks to everyone else for the efforts you've made to help.

20 May 2014 at 07:50 #152990

David Jupp

Participant

@davidjupp51506

Typically the S series are ordinary (old) EN materials, but with more inspection/certification and may also be to a tighter chemical analysis than the 'bog standard' material.

For example, one customer users S97 or S154 if EN25 is not obtainable – being aerospace certified it costs a lot more though.

20 May 2014 at 09:16 #152994

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hi David,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Are you aware of a reference for a list of equivalents ie S types to BS EN? Thanks for everyone's input, greatly appreciated.

Carl.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 20/05/2014 09:17:36

20 May 2014 at 09:43 #152995

David Jupp

Participant

@davidjupp51506

Sorry, not aware of a cross reference list – though it must exist. I'd be interested if anyone has one.

I guess there may be some S grades that don't fall neatly into a single EN grade – perhaps optimised for some specific reason…

20 May 2014 at 09:55 #152996

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Thank you David,

I expect you are right, I will keep looking for info and you never know I may come across a list of equivalents. The report I referred to earlier is about a prototype piece of equipment built not long after the war. The authors are at pains to point out that money was short and therefore the unit was machined from BSS.S1 – a very bog standard mild steel by the sound of it – to save money (cheaper, readily available material) and time in terms of easy fabrication.

It would still be good to know exactly what it is, it will help me in my interpretation of the report. I can make sense of the design dimensions based around the material properties.

Thank you again David, for giving up your time to assist me.

Carl.

20 May 2014 at 10:21 #152998

John Stevenson 1

Participant

@johnstevenson1

This is a true story and on an old hard drive [ long gone] I used to have the source of the tale below and I would love to get this again if anyone can help.

Pre war, WWII that is every supplier of steel had their own grades.

As soon as war started, it became obvious that something had to be done as the same parts were being manufactured by different companies all over England and so used different suppliers.

Some bright bod in the Ministry of Supply worked this out and a meeting was called in a hotel at Scarborough of the heads of the main steel companies.

When they got there they were led into a conference room, given tea and sandwiches then told they needed to thrash out a new standard they could all work to. As an added incentive they were locked in and told they could come out when they had finished. History doesn't tell us how long this meeting lasted but the result was that until the end of the war everyone would use the same standard called EN which stood for Emergency Number.

This then carried on after tha war until we adopted that abomination of a new standard we have today which is given lip service at the supply level.

You ring my supplier up and say have you got any 55mm BS45M xxxxxxx and he says "Oh you mean EN8 " !!

20 May 2014 at 10:32 #153001

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hi John,

I can well believe it. I have sent an email to the restoration centre at the RAF museum Cosford, so they should hopefully be able to help.

Carl.

20 May 2014 at 11:37 #153007

Gordon W

Participant

@gordonw

John, you are lucky, the best I get round here is " best commercial quality ". I have heard the EN story before but can't remember where, I am originally from that part of the world and always believed it.

20 May 2014 at 11:59 #153009

Anonymous

I inherited from my father a small booklet on steel specifications by Firth Brown, published in January 1954. Among the steels listed are British Standards for Aircraft Materials S Steels. The nearest to S1 is 5S1, a 35-45 ton carbon steel for machining. Composition is 0.4%C, 0.05-0.35%Si, 0.5-0.9%Mn and the balance Fe. An equivalent is given as En6, otherwise known as key steel.

Andrew

20 May 2014 at 12:53 #153013

Ian S C

Participant

@iansc

Don't know if this is any use; The Vintage Aviator Ltd., in Masterton NZ build WW1 aircraft to the to the original design/drawings, engines included where required. They will have the steel specs for aircraft from around WW1.

You could try this INFO@TVAL.CO.NZ Their web site is worth a look regardless. www. thevintageaviator.co.nz

Edited By Ian S C on 20/05/2014 12:59:07

20 May 2014 at 12:58 #153014

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hi Andrew,

Many thanks for that. I may have the spec details I need at home in my own library somewhere, but I'm away from home currently…Interesting you say 5S1 as I earlier came up with 7S1. You are lucky to have such a book. I have a Millwright and Maintenance Engineer's handbook that is full of all manner of interesting bygone specs. However, when I worked on aircraft about 12 years ago they weren't bygone, as all of the British aircraft I worked on were essentially museum pieces (and one or two now literally are).

Thanks again,

Carl.

20 May 2014 at 12:58 #153015

Carl Wilson 4

Participant

@carlwilson4

Hi Andrew,

Thanks again,

Carl.

20 May 2014 at 13:18 #153016

Carl Wilson 4

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