Is it zinc or aluminium?

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Is it zinc or aluminium?

Home Forums Materials Is it zinc or aluminium?

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
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  • #134936
    Paul Fallert
    Participant
      @paulfallert28101

      Other than melting temperature, is there a quick/simple way to distinguish between zinc and aluminium?

      If I throw a bit of gray metal into the melt pot and it is zinc when I was expecting that is was aluminium, the resulting casting will be spoiled.

      What do others use to keep these metals separate? The alchemists must have had some simple method of testing their bits of metal.

      Paul

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      #29499
      Paul Fallert
      Participant
        @paulfallert28101

        Any simple test for aluminium vs zinc?

        #134940
        Michael Gilligan
        Participant
          @michaelgilligan61133

          Paul,

          Weigh it; then check the volume, and calculate the Density.

          … Remember Archimedes ?

          Table of densities here [and many other places]

          MichaelG.

          #134942
          jason udall
          Participant
            @jasonudall57142

            Citric acid or lemon juice?

            Metal will fiz a bit

            Compare known ali with unkown…
            ..btw adding magnesium by mistake is far worse consequence than poor casting. …”

            #134945
            Bazyle
            Participant
              @bazyle

              and aluminium reacts with caustic soda.

              Also try making a battery with a bit of copper, mystery metal and acid. You could calculate resulting voltage but comparison with known sample would be easier.

              #134946
              jason udall
              Participant
                @jasonudall57142

                Bazyle..good idea..if you chose you ref metal ( say known ali ) with instead of acid say salt water ..then simple go no go test results… ( no volts then ali.. volts then not ali)

                #134950
                Michael Cox 1
                Participant
                  @michaelcox1

                  Aluminium should not react with vinegar at room temperature. Zinc will react slowly giving of bubbles of hydrogen.

                  Aluminium and zinc will react with strong (15%) caustic soda solution evolving hydrogen at room temperature magnesium will not.

                  Clean zinc and magnesium both react rapidly with copper sulphate depositing copper on the surface of the metal but aluminium does not.

                  If you heat zinc strongly with a blowtorch it will vapourise and oxidise emiting a white smoke. Aluminium does not do this. Magnesium will burn with a bright white flame if heated strongly and give of white smoke.

                  Mike

                  #134953
                  dave greenham
                  Participant
                    @davegreenham19379

                    Bazyle.

                    can you still get caustic soda ? I thought that had been banned years ago. But was a great week killer.

                    Dave.

                    #134954
                    dave greenham
                    Participant
                      @davegreenham19379

                      Oops. Weed killer sorry. Predicted text.

                      Dave.

                      #134955
                      Russell Eberhardt
                      Participant
                        @russelleberhardt48058
                        Posted by dave greenham on 08/11/2013 20:15:15:

                        Bazyle.

                        can you still get caustic soda ? I thought that had been banned years ago. But was a great week killer.

                        Dave.

                        Yes caustic soda is easy to get. You're thinking of sodium chlorate which, as well as being a weedkiller can be used in various recipes to make bombs.

                        Russell.

                        #134958
                        Tony Pratt 1
                        Participant
                          @tonypratt1

                          Sodium Chlorate was banned by the dicks in Brussels years ago as a fire hazard and yes it was a good weed killer and also an ingredient in the making of gunpowder/black powder [ as a replacement for sodium/potassium nitrate] so as the Americans say 'go figure'

                          Tony

                          #134962
                          Speedy Builder5
                          Participant
                            @speedybuilder5

                            Sodium Chlorate available in liquid form over here. Crystals only sold in tins from under the counter now, along with Carbon Tetrachloride. (Old stock guvn'r.)

                            #134969
                            jonathan heppel
                            Participant
                              @jonathanheppel43280

                              Potassium nitrate was certainly available ten years ago and may still be, albeit in small quantities. It's an essential ingredient for curing ham and bacon.

                              #135090
                              Howard Lewis
                              Participant
                                @howardlewis46836

                                Aluminium, Zinc, and Copper will all react with Caustic Soda.

                                Mercury will react with Aluminium, to produce "whiskers" but you are not likely to be able to get hold (no pun!) of any, because it can be quite dangerous to health (especially Kidneys).

                                Aluminium swarf will burn, (so will Magnesium – BIG time) BE VERY CAREFUL, where, when and how and how much, you test.

                                I would not expect Zinc or Copper swarf to burn.

                                The melting points, may give a clue as to Ali or Zinc, but the purity will cause variations in the actual value.

                                Howard

                                #135097
                                Swarf, Mostly!
                                Participant
                                  @swarfmostly

                                  Hi there, all,

                                  You can determine the specific gravity of an object using just a rigid rod, three bits of string, a counter-weight, a measuring tape and a bucket of water.

                                  Suspend the rod by roughly the centre using one piece of string, hang the counter-weight on one end and the object from close to the other end using the other two pieces of string. Arrange the object, counter-weight and 'centre' suspension positions until the system is in balance. Measure the two spacings between the suspensions of the object, the counter-weight and the main suspension point.

                                  Then lower the system so that the object is freely immersed in the bucket of water and not trapping any air bubbles – adjust one but not both suspensions to restore balance. (It's best if you only move the object, you'll have to move it further from the main suspension – leave the counter-weight position unchanged wrt the main suspension.)  Measure and note the new inter-suspension distances. The object will have 'lost' the weight of its volume of water.

                                  By a bit of algebra, the specific gravity of the object can be calculated (I'd describe the details of the calculation here but it's a bit too close to bed-time!).

                                  Look up the specific gravity in the reference books or on the Internet to get a pretty reliable clue as to the metal's identity.

                                  This method may sound a bit Heath-Robinson but it's certainly capable of distinguishing between aluminium (alloy) and zinc or die-casting metal.

                                  Best regards,

                                  Swarf, Mostly!

                                   

                                  Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 09/11/2013 22:51:26

                                  Edited By Swarf, Mostly! on 09/11/2013 22:52:40

                                  #135100
                                  Michael Cox 1
                                  Participant
                                    @michaelcox1
                                    Posted by Howard Lewis on 09/11/2013 21:59:18:

                                    Aluminium, Zinc, and Copper will all react with Caustic Soda.

                                    Caustic soda will not react with copper.

                                    Mike

                                    #135101
                                    Gone Away
                                    Participant
                                      @goneaway

                                      When I was involved with die-cast parts years ago, in both aluminum and zinc we just used to pick them up to find out which was which. Zinc is pretty heavy compared to aluminum. Close to steel actually.

                                      #135102
                                      Michael Gilligan
                                      Participant
                                        @michaelgilligan61133
                                        Posted by OMG on 09/11/2013 23:51:14:

                                        When I was involved with die-cast parts years ago, in both aluminum and zinc we just used to pick them up to find out which was which. Zinc is pretty heavy compared to aluminum. Close to steel actually.

                                        .

                                        Quite so … as per my first reply.

                                        I presume that others are just fond of their Chemistry sets.

                                        MichaelG.

                                        #135105
                                        Gone Away
                                        Participant
                                          @goneaway
                                          Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/11/2013 00:18:06:

                                          Quite so … as per my first reply.

                                          … er …. yeah ….. sans the weighing, checking the volume and calculating the density I guess it is.smiley

                                          (Sorry, Michael – couldn't resist).

                                          #135110
                                          Michael Gilligan
                                          Participant
                                            @michaelgilligan61133
                                            Posted by OMG on 10/11/2013 01:05:49:

                                            Posted by Michael Gilligan on 10/11/2013 00:18:06:

                                            Quite so … as per my first reply.

                                            … er …. yeah ….. sans the weighing, checking the volume and calculating the density I guess it is.smiley

                                            (Sorry, Michael – couldn't resist).

                                            .

                                            Yes … exactly

                                            Your experience allowed you to estimate the density; thus skipping those formal steps.

                                            That's a reasonably safe thing to do … because the difference in these densities is roughly 3:1

                                            Paul was obviously unaware of this, so I was trying to help him understand the principle.

                                            … finding the shortcuts comes later.

                                            MichaelG.

                                            #135112
                                            SteveW
                                            Participant
                                              @stevew54046

                                              How about soft solder? If its sheet then zinc will 'tin' fairly easily but ali will not. Not so convenient on lumps which I guess was the OPs situation.

                                              SteveW

                                              #135116
                                              Skarven
                                              Participant
                                                @skarven

                                                A word of caution when heating Zinc.

                                                I did just a few minutes TIG-welding a joint in 1" Zinc-plated steel tube. (I did not know it was plated!)

                                                About 10 hours later I got a serious blood pressure fall. I was outside, and had to hold on to a tree, even when laying flat on the ground. My balance was non-existing, and the world was spinning madly. This lasted for 2 days. It took a week before I could walk with confidence on a flat floor. Zinc-poisoning is no joke!

                                                #135616
                                                Paul Fallert
                                                Participant
                                                  @paulfallert28101

                                                  The simple answer is that zinc is almost 3 times heavier than aluminum.

                                                  By practicing on sample bits (by comparison), I should be able to detect which is which.

                                                  Since zinc density is close to iron, that might help with the learning process.

                                                  Once this skill is acquired, no need to have access to acids or other special equipment.

                                                  Thanks to everyone for their assistance.

                                                  Paul

                                                  #135641
                                                  Michael Gilligan
                                                  Participant
                                                    @michaelgilligan61133

                                                    Paul,

                                                    Glad to see you "got there".

                                                    MichaelG.

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