Bulk Metal Removal, Any suggestions?

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Bulk Metal Removal, Any suggestions?

Home Forums Materials Bulk Metal Removal, Any suggestions?

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 29 total)
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  • #122074
    Ian P
    Participant
      @ianp

      I foolishly agreed to make some (4) custom wheel hubs for a car enthusiast but did not take into account how long! it will take just to reduce the barstock to a size where I can do the detailed bits.

      I need to reduce the 160mm diameter to 50mm for a length of 80mm. The material is EN24T so machines beautifully but on a 5" Boxford is going to be long job.

      I dont have a hacksaw machine but considered using a angle grinder/thin cutting disk to take of chunks (chord shape) which would have the side benefit of giving a few useful EN24 chunks.

      If anyone with a big lathe who is running short of swarf wants to restock, I am open to some sort of colaboration.

      Ian P

       

      Edited By Ian Phillips on 12/06/2013 10:44:05

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      #29483
      Ian P
      Participant
        @ianp
        #122077
        Anonymous

          If we assume you've got 1hp to play with then a cut of 0.1" depth, at 4 thou per rev, and a surface speed of 200fpm should be about the maximum, assuming carbide tooling. At the larger size, 200fpm is roughly 127rpm. That gives 6 minutes per cut, in theory. Roughly 2 hours a part. Of course as the diameter decreases then the speed can be increased.

          Two hours seems like a long time, but unless you have some serious cutoff style saws I suspect that grinding is going to be difficult and just as time consuming. Plus you'll have to finish turn anyway.

          You're welcome to borrow my lathe (3hp), but I'm quite a long way from Cheshire.

          Regards,

          Andrew

          PS: Is that a VFD control box over the screwcutting gearbox? If so then all calculations go out of the window, unless you can ensure that the motor is running at, or above, base speed.

          #122082
          Martin Kyte
          Participant
            @martinkyte99762

            Cold Chisel + 24lb Sledge Hammer

            #122088
            Ady1
            Participant
              @ady1

              A Carbide tool and auto feed (screwcutting feed)

              Shouldn't take too long on a boxford

              All you do is crank it back, set a bit deeper, and re-engage after each cut

              If you do a parting off cut just beyond 80mm near the chuck(backgear can be useful for that) then you can rough cut in both directions with a pointy carbide tool, saving yet more time

               

              edit: That's a pretty mincy looking cutting tool setup you've got there btw

              Something a bit stiffer will make a huge difference, like a cutting toolpost directly on the cross slide

              Compounds are really for more detailed work

              For Metal munching have a toolpost you can put directly on the cross slide, and secure the overhanging end with a live centre

              (If you had a rubbish hobby lathe you would learn all these things the hard way)

               

              Double edit

              Is that a magnetic chuck you're holding the workpiece on with??

              Edited By Ady1 on 12/06/2013 12:31:52

              Edited By Ady1 on 12/06/2013 12:33:55

              #122089
              Ian P
              Participant
                @ianp

                Thanks for the advice,

                I guesstimated at least 4 hours based on the biggest cuts I normally take. The complications are, being certain the part is not going to come out of the chuck whilst I'm roughing it out, also the (550W) motor power is restricted by the last belt in an underdrive Boxford being a link type. It prone to slipping so I normally revert to using backgear. I can then take substantial cuts but safe workholding is hard to guarantee and this is a heavy lump!

                Once I get it near to size I can mount it on my only faceplate (Drive dog carrier plate with 220 x 10mm ali disk fastened on).

                Andrew, thanks for the offer. The diecast box is is the VFD remote.

                IanP

                #122090
                Ady1
                Participant
                  @ady1

                  In case you missed my edit

                  Use a live centre on the overhanging end, it makes a big difference for stiffness

                   

                  Is that a magnetic chuck you're using??

                  Edited By Ady1 on 12/06/2013 12:37:53

                  #122091
                  Ian P
                  Participant
                    @ianp
                    Posted by Ady1 on 12/06/2013 12:15:33:

                    A Carbide tool and auto feed (screwcutting feed)

                    Shouldn't take too long on a boxford

                    All you do is crank it back, set a bit deeper, and re-engage after each cut

                    If you do a parting off cut just beyond 80mm near the chuck(backgear can be useful for that) then you can rough cut in both directions with a pointy carbide tool, saving yet more time

                    edit: That's a pretty mincy looking cutting tool setup you've got there btw

                    Something a bit stiffer will make a huge difference, like a cutting toolpost directly on the cross slide

                    Compounds are really for more detailed work

                    For Metal munching have a toolpost you can put directly on the cross slide

                    Edited By Ady1 on 12/06/2013 12:30:14

                    Double edit

                    Is that a magnetic chuck you're holding the workpiece on with??

                    Edited By Ady1 on 12/06/2013 12:31:52

                    Good idea about missing out the compound, I normally have a Dickson mounted but that has built in overhang. The tool shown is a cut down 20mm square Seco one. It is overhung only because the carriage was too high to get under the job.

                    Did you mean mincy or wimpy!

                    Not convinced about the parting groove gap, I find it quickest not to stop the lathe between cuts (to reverse the idler gears) so just wind back manually between powered cuts.

                    Ian P

                    #122092
                    Trevor Wright
                    Participant
                      @trevorwright62541

                      Ian,

                      Would use a centre in the tailstock anyway to keep the job pushed into the jaws, it cannot come out then. As said before beef up the tool-holder…..

                      Trevor

                      #122093
                      Ian P
                      Participant
                        @ianp

                        Ady

                        Not a magnetic chuck, its a 4 jaw on its limits!

                        Ian P

                        #122095
                        David Littlewood
                        Participant
                          @davidlittlewood51847

                          If I understand your description correctly, you are making a part with a 50 mm spigot 80 mm long, with a main part 160 mm in diameter. I must say if I were making something of these dimensions I would be looking at fabrication – either Loctite or silver solder to fix a spigot in a bored hole in the disc. Much quicker and cheaper. However, I do understand if it's for someone else, and they specified it and supplied the material, you may have to go that way.

                          Just out of interest – if you know – where did you get the EN24T from? Lovely stuff, used it a few times myself.

                          David

                          #122097
                          Bazyle
                          Participant
                            @bazyle

                            You are going to get bored and leave it to it's own devices and forget and…….face 3
                            Set up an emergency limit switch before it's too late.

                            Didn't Tubal Cain or one of the old hands about 40 yrs ago in ME often mention his 'Gibraltar' tool post – big lump like a rear toolpost. missing out the topslide. Another one from the old days was a holder with a vertical bar dropping down to the cross slide for support.

                            Depending on what is going to happen to the 'inside' currently up against the chuck you could drill/tap and run a bit of threaded bar up the spindle to pull it in tight.

                            #122098
                            Ian P
                            Participant
                              @ianp

                              David

                              The customer supplied the material. In the past I have bought it from Mike at Noggin End who will get sizes in that are not shown on their website.

                              I have fabricated similar proportioned parts (bolted, shrunk, loctite etc) but this part was not amenable to that construction.

                              Bazyle

                              Bolting through the spindle is a whizzo idea, The part will have a clear bore later so I will put in an M12 thread, that'l hold it! I will also rig up a solid toolpost in place of the topslide.

                              Ian P

                              #122103
                              David Littlewood
                              Participant
                                @davidlittlewood51847
                                Posted by Ian Phillips on 12/06/2013 13:33:44:

                                David

                                The customer supplied the material. In the past I have bought it from Mike at Noggin End who will get sizes in that are not shown on their website.

                                Thanks Ian. I have used Mike quite a few times, just wondered if there was another useful source to add to the list!

                                David

                                #122104
                                David Littlewood
                                Participant
                                  @davidlittlewood51847
                                  Posted by Bazyle on 12/06/2013 13:10:08:

                                  Didn't Tubal Cain or one of the old hands about 40 yrs ago in ME often mention his 'Gibraltar' tool post – big lump like a rear toolpost. missing out the topslide. Another one from the old days was a holder with a vertical bar dropping down to the cross slide for support.

                                  Yes, I made one of those for my S7 many years ago – from a Hemingway casting IIRC. Most useful for doing large chunks of iron. Not sure, but it may be possible to adapt it for a Boxford; I'd guess Kirk (did I remember that right?), the new owner of Hemingway Kits would know, seemed a helpful guy when I spoke to him a few years ago.

                                  David

                                  Edited By David Littlewood on 12/06/2013 16:15:12

                                  #122105
                                  Chris Heapy
                                  Participant
                                    @chrisheapy71135

                                    I think I would have used a bandsaw to take chunks out (like Ian suggested), making careful use of depth stops to ensure no mistakes. Would leave a nasty interrupted cut to clean up but less swarf. Not sure how much use the awkwardly shaped chopped off bits would be. You could be turning one while another was being sawn.

                                    Chris

                                    Edited By Chris Heapy on 12/06/2013 16:23:50

                                    #122106
                                    MICHAEL WILLIAMS
                                    Participant
                                      @michaelwilliams41215

                                      Scotch tool – annular cut into face of work as deep as it will go – part off ring – repeat as nescessary to get full metal removal – probably 3 or 4 go's will do it .

                                      Optionally do it the other way round – part deep grooves into work and allow rings to break off as a continuous annular cut meets each groove .

                                      As a general principle the worst way to remove a lot of material is to reduce it to swarf . Always worth looking for two different direction cuts which will intersect and cut off whole pieces .

                                      For interest – most efficient ways of shaping metal are casting , forging and sawing – turning and milling are way down the list .

                                      MikeW

                                       

                                      Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 12/06/2013 17:24:29

                                      #122107
                                      Ian P
                                      Participant
                                        @ianp

                                        Michael

                                        I've not heard of a Scotch tool but an extra deep Starrett type holesaw would produce a really useful ring of EN24 (which I would never find a use for anyway!)

                                        Another efficient way of creating objects is by additive manufacturing. Sintering would be another although 'efficiency' in all these cases is quite a complex subject if all the processes from the ore to the end product are taken into account.

                                        Ian P

                                        #122108
                                        Neil Greenaway
                                        Participant
                                          @neilgreenaway71611

                                          Hi Ian,

                                          During previous employment in an oilfield equipment manufacturing business the machinists worked on large billets (4130/4140 as most basic material) up to inconel 718. For bulk removal they generally prepped the workpieces on large manual lathes using large trepanning bars (generally made in-house with Sandvik TC tips and holders fitted) to remove cores for internal diameter roughing. These were tubular with relief added for chip removal around the tips. Basically a large holesaw but with tipped cutters fitted. This could be done but might add significant time for trenapping and also grooving/parting.

                                          Many thanks,

                                          Neil

                                          #122119
                                          jason udall
                                          Participant
                                            @jasonudall57142

                                            Almost big enough to justify a bandsaw just for that job
                                            I would look at trepanning “slices” off……maybe mount chuck on toolpost and mill but thats a long long reach….

                                            #122124
                                            Chris Trice
                                            Participant
                                              @christrice43267

                                              If you're taking heavy cuts off a chunk like this, apart from a more rigid set up (like the Gibraltar tool post already mentioned) I'd be inclined to use a tailstock centre too to push the metal towards the chuck. If you get a dig in, that's a large chunk to come flying out and the urge to cut faster and heavier on this sort of job is likely to lead to just such a problem.

                                              #122125
                                              Sub Mandrel
                                              Participant
                                                @submandrel

                                                I'm with using a bandsaw to rou rough it out

                                                Neil

                                                #122127
                                                Ian P
                                                Participant
                                                  @ianp

                                                  I will definitely have the tailstock and live center in position in addition the threaded rod through the mandrel so feel better about taking heavy cuts thanks to the advice on this forum.

                                                  Originally the customer arranged to get the blanks rough turned (by the person that supplied the steel) before they were issued to me. When I got them one of the blanks had about 5mm turned off the OD, I suspect they then got tired and made some excuse so I got dumped on really.

                                                  Ian P

                                                  #122129
                                                  Ian P
                                                  Participant
                                                    @ianp

                                                    Neil

                                                    If I had a bandsaw, I would too.

                                                    Ian P

                                                    #122130
                                                    Andyf
                                                    Participant
                                                      @andyf

                                                      I might try getting a core drill into it, then attack from the side with a parting tool.

                                                      But with so many teeth in action at the same time, a beefy motor might be needed, and core drills can have problems with clearing chips from a deep annular groove.

                                                      Andyye

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