Toilet handle spacer – need to turn one

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Toilet handle spacer – need to turn one

This topic has 14 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 20 November 2012 at 07:16 by John Coates.

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18 November 2012 at 19:35 #104084
John Coates
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@johncoates48577
One of our toilet handles has broken and none of the repair kits fit as they are larger and too big for the hole in the ceramic cistern

Basically imagine a threaded cylinder with a flange at the end to stop it sliding through the hole in the cistern. To tighten this against the cistern is a locking nut.

These are plastic and trying to repair the existing one by plastic welding with a soldering iron results in a weak joint that just breaks. Having replaced the syphons in two toilets and spent most of the weekend doing this and stopping them leaking (close coupled) it's time to turn to that recalcitrant handle

SWMBO is getting fraught that one toilet is still out of commission and I thought "I have a lathe and this is just a turning job, right?"

So any tips on how to turn a replacement fitting on the lathe? Will my normal metal cutting tools work on plastic? I intend to just screw cut the cylinder to match the existing lock nut (one less job) and reckon on using nthreads to use my set of change wheels to get somewhere close

I've only cut and threaded steel (FC and stainless) and brass so plastic is new to me. Think the existing is ABS but will see what the supply store has in stock tomorrow during lunch break

Thanks for any help

John
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18 November 2012 at 19:35 #29468
John Coates
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@johncoates48577
Need to know how to cut/thread plastic
18 November 2012 at 19:38 #104085
Sub Mandrel
Participant
@submandrel
Sharp tools, don't go too fast so it doesn't melt.

Hope you get it fixed in time

Neil
18 November 2012 at 19:59 #104087
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
Thanks Neil

I'm mainly in trouble because I paid the maintenance guy from work £60 to fix the two toilets that weren't working very well. This was three weeks ago. He said he fitted two service kits but neither toilet was much better. He said he would "do me a deal" on two replacement cisterns if they weren't fixed

So I searched the t'interweb, read about replacing the syphons, bought two new ones and fitted them yesterday and today. In the process I found he only fitted one service kit (or else the new one deteriorated bloody quickly in 3 weeks) so was extra angry.

Hence sorting the broke handle is top priority to recover some of the cash I paid to this muppet

John
18 November 2012 at 20:11 #104088
roy entwistle
Participant
@royentwistle24699
Just a thought Why not make a metal one preferrably brass
18 November 2012 at 20:13 #104089
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
Roy

I thought of that but am worried that metal will grind/wear against the ceramic cistern – the flat part (imagine a top hat with the cylinder going through the hole in the cistern)

Do you reckon brass will be okay?
18 November 2012 at 20:48 #104090
Paul Barter
Participant
@paulbarter66156
Hello there, probabley no need to torment yourself or your wife! The sheds and plum center, thats how they spell it, sell handles for cisterns. The sleeve is usually polythene and thus un gluable, but it can be easily harvested from the handle kit if you do not fancy the handle supplied and your original substituted. I hope this helps
18 November 2012 at 20:52 #104091
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
Cheers Paul

That's the problem with weekends – the plumbers merchants all close at midday on Saturday and my problem didn't synch with their opening hours!

Will give them a visit tomorrow
18 November 2012 at 20:54 #104092
Robert Dodds
Participant
@robertdodds43397
John,

The bigger concern with using a metal bush is that to prevent stressing in the ceramic and consequent cracking of the cistern you should fit 1.5 – 2mm thick rubber washers both inside and outside the cistern wall. It is not quite so important with a plastic bush and nut but even there you need a little compliance against the ceramic.

You won't have any trouble cutting plastic in the lathe but whats wrong with going for a Screwfix replacement handle for £4.49 ? It comes complete with new plastic bush and nut for you to use as you like

Bob D
18 November 2012 at 21:07 #104094
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
Cheers Bob, will look at Screwfix

Our handle shaft is 18.5mm OD whereas the Wickes kits were about 22mm
18 November 2012 at 21:56 #104096
Andyf
Participant
@andyf
Being part of a plumbing fixture, it could well be a BSP thread, John. I've just measured the plastic bush in my cistern, which appears to be 1/2" BSP, with a major diameter of 0.825" and 14 TPI.

If your bush is also BSP, it must be a larger size or have pretty thin walls if the handle shaft passing through it is 18.5mm/0.729". Maybe 5/8" BSP with major diameter 0.902"/22.91mm, or 3/4" BSP with 1.041"/26.44mm, both of which are also 14 TPI. The major diameters are nominal, and may be a bit less in practice. BSP is a 55 degree Whitworth thread form. That must drive them mad in more metric parts of the world; it has wide international use for plumbing.

Andy
18 November 2012 at 21:59 #104097
Sam Stones
Participant
@samstones42903
Hi John,

The trouble with injection moulded plastics nuts and bushes, is that there is (almost) always a weak(er) weld line opposite the gate (feed point). This results from the fact that the melted material has to travel around both sides of the mould core, and rejoin (weld).

That aside, when machining plastics, treat the job as if the material was wood, ie. lots of top and front rake. There’s less tendency for the cutting tool to rub, and the swarf is (usually) propelled away from the workpiece rather than getting wrapped around it.

Static electricity can become involved too, adding to the problem.

Plastics materials which are reasonable to work with, but not all that cheap are polyacetal (Delrin), and rigid PVC (RPVC). Both are more rigid than polyethylene and polypropylene, but will still deform in the chuck unless care is taken.

As has been suggested above, I’d be buying brass nuts/bushes and padding the ceramic/brass contact faces with rubber.

Or, if you don’t mind the extra cost and extra work, machine your own from brass.

Regards,

Sam

Edited By Sam Stones on 18/11/2012 22:01:39
18 November 2012 at 22:58 #104098
Les Jones 1
Participant
@lesjones1
Hi John.
Toolstation supply this one which includes 3/8" and 1/2" bushes which I assume are the BSP sizes. 3/8" BSP has an outside thread diameter of 0.656" (17.7mm) and 1/2" BSP 0.825" (21.0mm)
Screwfix do not seem to give any thread sizes on their website.

Les.
19 November 2012 at 07:34 #104104
Terryd
Participant
@terryd72465
Hi all,

I would have thought this question would have been better and more quickly solved by visiting a Plumbing forum such as this one as such items are cheap and readily available. Not worth the waste of workshop time to make them I would have thought.

By the way Paul it is spelled Plumb Center. Useful to spell correctly when searching.

Best regards

Terry
20 November 2012 at 07:16 #104181
John Coates
Participant
@johncoates48577
Terryd – agreed but at the time the local suppliers didn't have what I wanted and SWMBO was getting very irate and buying some plastic from the local supplier and turning it seemed the quickest way out of my domestic hell

In the end it was Les who provided the solution as Toolstation were on the same road my lad works on in Doncaster (25 miles away). He picked one up yesterday and I fixed it this morning at 7am (was out watching Skyfall last night). Got a a hug from SWMBO so domestic bliss is restored. Didn't know about Toolstation but I do now!

Thanks all. John

Edited By John Coates on 20/11/2012 07:16:27
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